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Post by lawman on Feb 24, 2007 0:40:12 GMT -5
Now your 'Lawyer-like Sharpness 'kicked in!' Deception is very subtle, isn't it!?
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Post by phinehas on Feb 24, 2007 0:43:48 GMT -5
Rich,
In regards to your "fortune teller" argument...that's not what the Bible states. The people the Bible refers to, if you read, are the people that communicate with the dead in order to get information, etc. Fortune tellers don't do that, per se. They look at a crystal ball and at shuffled cards and make up shit. They are guilty of lying but not what is described in the Bible. The ones that DO communicate(see below) are the real deal.
The actual bad part of doing this, is the fact that they are not communicating with grandma or anyone else that has lived and died, yet they are communicating with evil Angels. So, you see, seeking after the guidance of the Devil's henchmen is not looked on favorably and why there was direction given to remove them (evil) from the People.
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Post by phinehas on Feb 24, 2007 0:56:33 GMT -5
Now your 'Lawyer-like Sharpness 'kicked in!' Deception is very subtle, isn't it!? In fairness to Rich, his use of words that seemed to exclude him from the group "Christians" in general is probably closer to say he doesn't identify with certain Christians, ie. fundamentalists. In fairness to Fundamentalists, I don't think Rich has enough correct information to make a valid judgement. That is my personal impression on some of his mischaracterizations of people and interpretations of the Bible that show a lack of adequate study.
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Post by phinehas on Feb 24, 2007 1:05:10 GMT -5
rich,
As far as the "plucking out of the eye" thing. Jesus was using an exaggeration to make a point. The illustration is that if you are going to stand before God on your OWN merit and not on the merit of Jesus, then you better do whatever it takes, ie. pluck out your eye or anything else that casues you to offend, because you will need to be PERFECT.
So, no I don't need to pluck out my eye, because I have no intention of going before God at my death and presenting myself as being holy...nope, I believe in the promise of God and that Jesus will be seen in me and therefore his perfection and holiness will be the measure of what is judged. Thank God.
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Post by yragicpizza on Feb 24, 2007 3:34:13 GMT -5
Yes, because, after all, America is a Christian theocracy, and other faiths and practices are Constitutionally prohibited. If this was true you would have been stoned years ago. Sarcasm is lost on you people, isn't it?
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Post by richbrout on Feb 24, 2007 10:28:42 GMT -5
Phin- Let me start by saying i respect you and the way you debate. You are thorough and respectful. Since we disagree about many things i appreciate that about you.
I am a Christian although I can understand the confusion. I FIRMLY believe that FamilyFirst and his friends from Bob Jones and all other FUNDAMENTALISTS have perverted Christianity, as much as they believe I have. I'll come back to why.
I was raised Roman Catholic, baptized, confirmed, attended Catholic High School and took 4 years of Theology. I have attended at different times in my adult life, The Church at Brook Hills, many Catholic churches in town, New Castle Methodist and the Unity Church.
Fundamentalist are literalist that scour over every word in the Bible, learning the Hebrew meaning and the Roman meaning. I think that most of them can't see the forest for the trees. Their main objective is to proselitize and win souls for heaven, so they hand out tracks, give their testimony and then get on the radio and message boards and tell everyone about how evil all the Sin in the world is (i.e. homosexuality,gambling,cursing,drinking,fornicating etc etc) BUT IT IS ALWAYS sin they themselves are not engaging in, so BY DEFINITION it is OTHER people's SIN----EXACTLY the opposite of what Christ told us to do.
I believe Jesus was the Son of God, LIVED THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A HUMAN LIFE FOR US, was crucified and resurrected. This makes me a Christian. Notice where I put the emphasis.
I believe Mother Theresa of Calcutta was a great Christian. I believe Mahatma Gandhi although he was a Hindu....practiced many of the most important values that Christians should aspire to. (love, charity,self less ness,non-violence,sacrifice). Most fundamentalist would dismiss Gandhi as a non-christian and yet I think Christians can be better Christians by studying Gandhi.
I BELIEVE in the message of Jesus. You don't have to be a Bibical Scholar, understand Hebrew or Latin, read the Bible everyday to get the message...it is designed for a simpleton.
"DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" "WHATSO ever you do to the least of my brothers, you have done unto me" Love others, feed the poor, visit the sick,elderly, imprisoned, forgive others........ IF YOUR FOCUS is on doing these things Christ taught....I fall very short....but if your focus is on improving yourself constantly and a lifetime commitment to working on yourself...the ove and power of Christ will SHINE through you like a beacon and draw more people to the love and commitment they see in you then a BIllion tracks or if you are outside an abortion clinic screaming at folks or at a football game outside the stadium telling people they are going to hell, or railing on gays in a message board. Being a Christian takes a 24 hour a day focus on your own behavior.....railing on other's sins..there isn't time for or should there be an inclination to do.
I know this is long and will upset the literalist but thought it might clear up where I stand.
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Post by lawman on Feb 24, 2007 10:50:39 GMT -5
Quote by richbrout ''I believe Jesus was the Son of God, LIVED THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A HUMAN LIFE FOR US, was crucified and resurrected. This makes me a Christian.''
It only makes you a Christian, rich, if HE nows lives in your heart!
James 2:19---Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Read 1st Timothy 4:1--4.....I too, grew up a Catholic......but NEVER had peace!
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Post by richbrout on Feb 24, 2007 10:59:14 GMT -5
I am not restricted to your definition of Christianity.
I found the Catholic Church to be much more service oriented than the others.
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Post by lawman on Feb 24, 2007 11:05:34 GMT -5
Denominations ARE OF MAN, not of GOD! Only the 'Wise' understand! Daniel--- 12th Chapter
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Post by phinehas on Feb 24, 2007 13:05:56 GMT -5
richbrout, I respect your opinion as well. "I am a Christian although I can understand the confusion." I am glad that my mistake was not taken harshly. I see what you are saying in regards to the message Christians give and how it is perceived. However, there may be cases where one can point to, such as the Westboro Baptist Church, as examples, but the majority of Christians, in my opinion, DO deal with the struggle of their sin. I think the main part of the problem is the fact that what is a gray area now, used to not be. A lot of Christians, including myself, see a society in America that has fallen from a high standard of every indicator. We are at a time in our history that is similar to a time described in Judges, where every man did that which was right in his own eyes. I think Christians don't know what to do. We don't know what we should be doing. Christians do however realize something must be done. Some will say, mind your own buisness...but that is obviously not the answer. The answer is in the Bible. Here is a link that points out how the attitude of the world has affected the church. www.deceptioninthechurch.com/everyman.htmlAs far as the gay issue and your comments on the railing on them....I really don't know how a person can state that homosexuality is a sin without it being offensive to those that practice it or empathize with it. Do I think the Westboro method is appropriate? No. Do I think the live and let live method is appropriate? No. I know that doing nothing should not be an option to Christians nor should taking the worldview on it. If Christians accept any sin, as defined in the Bible, as being ok to do, then Christianity becomes subjective versus objective.
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Post by richbrout on Feb 24, 2007 15:26:41 GMT -5
Leviticus Chap 20 v27 "A man or woman who is a medium or a fortune teller must be put to death"
Leviticus Chap 19 v 27 "You must not cut the hair on the sides of your head or cut the edges of your beard."
Stuff like this, Jonah and the Whale, Noah and the Ark, Eve and the serpent, Lot's wife turning to salt, really don't have any relevance to me. They also don't negate or affect anything Christ said. Jesus mentioned many sins. HE NEVER MENTIONED HOMOSEXUALITY. He does talk about sexual sin but its about lusting or adultery.
I think the fundamentalists in America are responding to our becoming more diverse both ethnically and in terms of religion. They feel threatened and are just lashing out at "others". I don't feel threatened by other cultures or religions, i feel we can learn alot.
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Post by lawman on Feb 24, 2007 16:05:41 GMT -5
Stuff like this, Jonah and the Whale, Noah and the Ark, Eve and the serpent, Lot's wife turning to salt, really don't have any relevance to me. They also don't negate or affect anything Christ said. Wow, so you 'think' Noah and the Ark didn't literally happen, or Eve eating from the forbidden Tree, or Lot's wife turning to salt? Sounds like you even doubt HE rose from the dead, 3 days after dying on the Cross? rich, you are in the palm of the hand of the enemy's deception!
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Post by richbrout on Feb 24, 2007 18:28:45 GMT -5
I am saying it doesn't have any relevance to me.
Jesus' message however does.
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Post by lawman on Feb 24, 2007 18:43:55 GMT -5
I am saying it doesn't have any relevance to me. Jesus' message however does. rich, I think you are sincere and I LIKE YOU, and you have made some excellent points on radio about the insanity of the war in Iraq! I KNOW GOD LOVES YOU! I have just felt compelled to tell the TRUTH as I know!
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Post by richbrout on Feb 24, 2007 19:58:46 GMT -5
Law-
Its all Good!!! Thats what makes America awesome...we can interpret and apply and live our lives the way we choose.
Have a good weekend Bro!
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Post by dixiepixie on Feb 24, 2007 21:15:39 GMT -5
Law- Its all Good!!! Thats what makes America awesome...we can interpret and apply and live our lives the way we choose. Have a good weekend Bro! Well, rich, lawman says I am the Devil, but I still understand what you are talking about. Christianity doesn't have to be a burden to bear. Most people don't realize what a beautiful thing it is to know God and have a strong faith that isn't tied to the dogma of a certain church.
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Post by family1st on Feb 25, 2007 21:01:10 GMT -5
Phin- Let me start by saying i respect you and the way you debate. You are thorough and respectful. Since we disagree about many things i appreciate that about you. I am a Christian although I can understand the confusion. I FIRMLY believe that FamilyFirst and his friends from Bob Jones and all other FUNDAMENTALISTS have perverted Christianity, as much as they believe I have. I'll come back to why. How does one pervert the scriptures without changing the message? The perversion of the scriptures belongs with you and your denomination. You still haven't responded to my previous posts. Will you not show us where the Bible condones homosexual behavior??Can you not show where those verses are in error?? If the best you can do is say "I don't believe that" or "That isn't relevent to me", then your argument has no basis. I was raised Roman Catholic, baptized, confirmed, attended Catholic High School and took 4 years of Theology. I have attended at different times in my adult life, The Church at Brook Hills, many Catholic churches in town, New Castle Methodist and the Unity Church. Fundamentalist are literalist that scour over every word in the Bible, learning the Hebrew meaning and the Roman meaning. I think that most of them can't see the forest for the trees. Hebrew, Latin, and Greek. Roman is not a language. Their main objective is to proselitize and win souls for heaven, so they hand out tracks, give their testimony and then get on the radio and message boards and tell everyone about how evil all the Sin in the world is (i.e. homosexuality,gambling,cursing,drinking,fornicating etc etc) BUT IT IS ALWAYS sin they themselves are not engaging in, so BY DEFINITION it is OTHER people's SIN----EXACTLY the opposite of what Christ told us to do. Flawed argument: Wow...your complete ignorance of Fundamentalism and the Bible is astounding. What fundamentalist church did you ever attend?? Ever been to B.J.U.'s Bible Conference?? No! Again, you give false statements with NOTHING to back it up. You still haven't responded to Christ's message "Go and sin no more". He didn't say "I know times are changing, so I'll accept your behavior" I believe Jesus was the Son of God, LIVED THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A HUMAN LIFE FOR US, was crucified and resurrected. This makes me a Christian. Notice where I put the emphasis. Where you put the emphasis "Lived the perfect example of a Human Life for us" does not make you a Christian. Even Saten and his minions can claim that, but they still ended up in hell. Jesus blood was shed for us and it is only through Him that we can be saved. He will be our justification when we stand before God at the Judgement. I believe Mother Theresa of Calcutta was a great Christian. I believe Mahatma Gandhi although he was a Hindu....practiced many of the most important values that Christians should aspire to. (love, charity,self less ness,non-violence,sacrifice). Most fundamentalist would dismiss Gandhi as a non-christian and yet I think Christians can be better Christians by studying Gandhi. Mother Theresa was a great Catholic. The two are not synonomous. Gandhi is in hell. Leading a good but non-believing life isn't good enough. I BELIEVE in the message of Jesus. You don't have to be a Bibical Scholar, understand Hebrew or Latin, read the Bible everyday to get the message...it is designed for a simpleton. (Funny...because you can't seem to grasp the fact that you can't make hedonistic lifestyles acceptable just because you don't agree with the scriptures I quoted you.) "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" "WHATSO ever you do to the least of my brothers, you have done unto me" Love others, feed the poor, visit the sick,elderly, imprisoned, forgive others........ IF YOUR FOCUS is on doing these things Christ taught....I fall very short....but if your focus is on improving yourself constantly and a lifetime commitment to working on yourself...the ove and power of Christ will SHINE through you like a beacon and draw more people to the love and commitment they see in you then a BIllion tracks or if you are outside an abortion clinic screaming at folks or at a football game outside the stadium telling people they are going to hell, or railing on gays in a message board. Being a Christian takes a 24 hour a day focus on your own behavior.....railing on other's sins..there isn't time for or should there be an inclination to do. Love the sinner, Hate the sin. Homosexuality is a deviant sin. It can't be justified by any means. Hey, let's count the number of posts where you "RAIL" or "Judge" others. Seems like you have all the time in the world. I know this is long and will upset the literalist but thought it might clear up where I stand. Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving,and the ABOMINABLE, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorceres, and idolaters and liars shall have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone.
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Post by family1st on Feb 25, 2007 21:03:40 GMT -5
Denominations ARE OF MAN, not of GOD! Only the 'Wise' understand! Daniel--- 12th Chapter Boy..someone's gonna be in for a shock when they find out "good works" won't cut it.
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Post by family1st on Feb 25, 2007 21:11:08 GMT -5
Leviticus Chap 20 v27 "A man or woman who is a medium or a fortune teller must be put to death" Leviticus Chap 19 v 27 "You must not cut the hair on the sides of your head or cut the edges of your beard." Stuff like this, Jonah and the Whale, Noah and the Ark, Eve and the serpent, Lot's wife turning to salt, really don't have any relevance to me. They also don't negate or affect anything Christ said. Jesus mentioned many sins. HE NEVER MENTIONED HOMOSEXUALITY. He does talk about sexual sin but its about lusting or adultery. I think the fundamentalists in America are responding to our becoming more diverse both ethnically and in terms of religion. They feel threatened and are just lashing out at "others". I don't feel threatened by other cultures or religions, i feel we can learn alot. Perversion of the scriptures. You and others like you are changing it to suit your own tastes and desires. You sound like someone looking for some sort of NEW AGE spirituality rather than the truth. The Truth is also contained more than the 5 books of the Bible that you seem to read.
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Post by richbrout on Feb 25, 2007 21:32:58 GMT -5
First-
Its not necessary to cut and paste my post everytime you want to post. I know there probably isn't a scripture verse to instruct you on how to post and that probably confuses you.
I have a brain that God gave me. I reject the fundamentalists' intolerant view of many of the people in the world...("the least of my brothers"). I reject people like you who can cite Chapter and verse but no nothing of compassion, love, mercy etc. but are well versed in who they think is going to the "lake that burneth with fire and brimstone"-
Why don't you leave such judgements to GOD-I believe those were his instructions. I'm not searching for anything. I don't need or desire to have your approval, in fact I would be disappointed in myself if you did approve of me. I believe you and fundamentalist like you have perverted Christianity and the dominate message of Christianity in this country is weak and uninspiring. It has very little to do with loving your neighbor and a great deal to do with trying to "Christianize America". But you are losing.
Even the Republican primary leader, Rudy Guliani, is pro choice and pro gay rights. Even Bush who claimed to be pro-life and not a gay rights supporter did NOTHING. So keeping spouting your hate......your a fringe element and on the way out.
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Post by lawman on Feb 25, 2007 21:59:52 GMT -5
Matthew 7: 13--29
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
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Post by richbrout on Feb 25, 2007 22:38:51 GMT -5
I'm glad you like Matthew, so do I.
Matthew Chap 7 V1-5 "Don't judge other people, or you will be judged. You will will be judged in the same way that you judge others, and the amount you give to others will be given to you. "Why do you notice the little piece of dust in your friend's eye, but you don't notice the big piece of wood in your own eye?"
I am SURE this would include homosexuals. The point remains that a person's personal relationship with God is exactly that...personal and not open to scrutiny and condemnation by people like First.
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Post by culverhouse4 on Feb 25, 2007 23:44:29 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more rich. Everybody wants to tell how unjust or unholy your spiritual walk is. BI think that though, the situation is very serious on its face. If you look at previous election cycles, it dosent appear that the american people see it that way, except for the people in this forum, and the people that call in to the shows. And we may contribute to a larger number of people, it just does not seem to me that we have elected officials that really give a flip. I think about my grandfather, if he was still alive to see this, it would be so hard for him to watch our elected officials give something away that he and his comrads believed in so much that they quit school to join the military and go fight in world war 2 because this country needed them. They are true patriots, they are the greatest generation, and it so sad that the american people see and know that this problem exists, and would rather be lazy and live with it than try to work together and get this issue under control so that the future generations are not stuck with the problems of today. I do not fault them for trying to provide a better life for their famalies, but i do fault them for trying to do it at the expense of my children, and grand children. ut thats just it , "YOUR" spiritual walk. I get so tired of the better than thou, attitude, spewed by the fundamentalists. See, the BIBLE is it, the proof in the pudding. However everyone is going to read the same thing. And everyone is going to have there own personal view of what it means. It is my job to make sure you hear the " GOOD NEWS OF CHRIST ". But fortunately for me , it is not my job to follow you home to make sure you are studying and praying, going to church , teaching your children about the truth, and leading your life in a spiritual way. Unless as a brother or sister in christ you ask my opinion on the situation or situations. That is what is awesome about it. I only have to make sure you hear it. It is up to you whether or not you want to embrace it and believe it. THE LORD gave us free will and choice so that we could decide for ourselves who and what we wanted to believe in. As for me , i know that JESUS is the real thing. He has done amazing things in my life. I to also know that there is to much work to be done on this sinner ,to be telling anyone else how to live there life. And anyway, wouldn't you rather believe it and be wrong than not believe it and it be wright the whole time. Eternity is a long time to be on fire. THANK YOU JESUS FOR SAVING A SINNER LIKE ME. I REALLY DON'T LIKE FIRE.........................
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Post by culverhouse4 on Feb 25, 2007 23:45:46 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more rich. Everybody wants to tell how unjust or unholy your spiritual walk is. BI think that though, the situation is very serious on its face. If you look at previous election cycles, it dosent appear that the american people see it that way, except for the people in this forum, and the people that call in to the shows. And we may contribute to a larger number of people, it just does not seem to me that we have elected officials that really give a flip. I think about my grandfather, if he was still alive to see this, it would be so hard for him to watch our elected officials give something away that he and his comrads believed in so much that they quit school to join the military and go fight in world war 2 because this country needed them. They are true patriots, they are the greatest generation, and it so sad that the american people see and know that this problem exists, and would rather be lazy and live with it than try to work together and get this issue under control so that the future generations are not stuck with the problems of today. I do not fault them for trying to provide a better life for their famalies, but i do fault them for trying to do it at the expense of my children, and grand children. ut thats just it , "YOUR" spiritual walk. I get so tired of the better than thou, attitude, spewed by the fundamentalists. See, the BIBLE is it, the proof in the pudding. However everyone is going to read the same thing. And everyone is going to have there own personal view of what it means. It is my job to make sure you hear the " GOOD NEWS OF CHRIST ". But fortunately for me , it is not my job to follow you home to make sure you are studying and praying, going to church , teaching your children about the truth, and leading your life in a spiritual way. Unless as a brother or sister in christ you ask my opinion on the situation or situations. That is what is awesome about it. I only have to make sure you hear it. It is up to you whether or not you want to embrace it and believe it. THE LORD gave us free will and choice so that we could decide for ourselves who and what we wanted to believe in. As for me , i know that JESUS is the real thing. He has done amazing things in my life. I to also know that there is to much work to be done on this sinner ,to be telling anyone else how to live there life. And anyway, wouldn't you rather believe it and be wrong than not believe it and it be wright the whole time. Eternity is a long time to be on fire. THANK YOU JESUS FOR SAVING A SINNER LIKE ME. I REALLY DON'T LIKE FIRE.........................
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Post by culverhouse4 on Feb 25, 2007 23:50:34 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more rich. Everybody wants to tell how unjust or unholy your spiritual walk is. But thats just it , "YOUR" spiritual walk. I get so tired of the better than thou, attitude, spewed by the fundamentalists. See, the BIBLE is it, the proof in the pudding. However everyone is going to read the same thing. And everyone is going to have there own personal view of what it means. It is my job to make sure you hear the " GOOD NEWS OF CHRIST ". But fortunately for me , it is not my job to follow you home to make sure you are studying and praying, going to church , teaching your children about the truth, and leading your life in a spiritual way. Unless as a brother or sister in christ you ask my opinion on the situation or situations. That is what is awesome about it. I only have to make sure you hear it. It is up to you whether or not you want to embrace it and believe it. THE LORD gave us free will and choice so that we could decide for ourselves who and what we wanted to believe in. As for me , i know that JESUS is the real thing. He has done amazing things in my life. I to also know that there is to much work to be done on this sinner ,to be telling anyone else how to live there life. And anyway, wouldn't you rather believe it and be wrong than not believe it and it be wright the whole time. Eternity is a long time to be on fire. THANK YOU JESUS FOR SAVING A SINNER LIKE ME. I REALLY DON'T LIKE FIRE.........................
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Post by culverhouse4 on Feb 25, 2007 23:55:15 GMT -5
TO EVERYONE, sorry about the first two posts. I kinda goofed. The third post is the wright one. But you can probably figure that out. C-YA
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Post by richbrout on Feb 26, 2007 8:21:46 GMT -5
In the spirit of Christianity...we forgive you. lol well said.
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Post by family1st on Feb 26, 2007 21:55:59 GMT -5
First- Its not necessary to cut and paste my post everytime you want to post. I know there probably isn't a scripture verse to instruct you on how to post and that probably confuses you. I have a brain that God gave me. I reject the fundamentalists' intolerant view of many of the people in the world...("the least of my brothers"). I reject people like you who can cite Chapter and verse but no nothing of compassion, love, mercy etc. but are well versed in who they think is going to the "lake that burneth with fire and brimstone"- Why don't you leave such judgements to GOD-I believe those were his instructions. I'm not searching for anything. I don't need or desire to have your approval, in fact I would be disappointed in myself if you did approve of me. I believe you and fundamentalist like you have perverted Christianity and the dominate message of Christianity in this country is weak and uninspiring. It has very little to do with loving your neighbor and a great deal to do with trying to "Christianize America". But you are losing. Even the Republican primary leader, Rudy Guliani, is pro choice and pro gay rights. Even Bush who claimed to be pro-life and not a gay rights supporter did NOTHING. So keeping spouting your hate......your a fringe element and on the way out. If you believe that you evolved from a monkey, then I'm inclined to agree with you. You have God's instruction manual sitting in front of you and yet you can't seem to grasp any of the basic tenets of Christianity. When you stand before God, you can tell Him how stupid and irrelevent some of His passages are. The Bible clearly says who will end up in hell, but you are so blinded by your own sin you can't see what's in front of you. Lawman and I have shown you scriptures and you haven't been able to show contradiction or refute them. Instead, you continually make personal attacks and spew your liberal misinformation. Every comment you make just reinforces the notion that you choose not follow the Bible, you seek to lead others astray with your ideas that aren't based on scripture, and when you get flustered you try to bring other topics-abortion, politics, etc. into the arguement. Start another thread and we'll deal with those on an individual basis. As for the perversion issue, let's see what Webster's has to say. "perversion"- a deviation from usual behavior or sexual behavior. Fundamentalists haven't changed the scriptures. They still read the same as they did when they were first written. The perversion is on your part for all to see. Your hate and intolerance for those that hold the Bible as absolute truth shows through. Face it Rich, you are "LOST". I'll continue to use your quotes so that others don't have to scroll upwards to see what baseless arguements you posted.
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Post by family1st on Feb 26, 2007 22:34:00 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more rich. Everybody wants to tell how unjust or unholy your spiritual walk is. But thats just it , "YOUR" spiritual walk. I get so tired of the better than thou, attitude, spewed by the fundamentalists. See, the BIBLE is it, the proof in the pudding. However everyone is going to read the same thing. And everyone is going to have there own personal view of what it means. It is my job to make sure you hear the " GOOD NEWS OF CHRIST ". But fortunately for me , it is not my job to follow you home to make sure you are studying and praying, going to church , teaching your children about the truth, and leading your life in a spiritual way. Unless as a brother or sister in christ you ask my opinion on the situation or situations. That is what is awesome about it. I only have to make sure you hear it. It is up to you whether or not you want to embrace it and believe it. THE LORD gave us free will and choice so that we could decide for ourselves who and what we wanted to believe in. As for me , i know that JESUS is the real thing. He has done amazing things in my life. I to also know that there is to much work to be done on this sinner ,to be telling anyone else how to live there life. And anyway, wouldn't you rather believe it and be wrong than not believe it and it be wright the whole time. Eternity is a long time to be on fire. THANK YOU JESUS FOR SAVING A SINNER LIKE ME. I REALLY DON'T LIKE FIRE......................... Since you're new to this arguement we'll overlook the fact that you are off topic. We are discussing homosexuality and what the Bible says about it. Your spiritual walk is an inward part of life. Sin manifests itself outwardly. One would think you and Rich have a Holier than Thou attitude towards fundamentalists. The one thing you seem to have missed is that Rich continually dismisses the verses given to him. People have free-will to choose, but Christians do not have free-will to pick and choose what passages to believe from the Bible. It's an all or nothing deal, because if there is doubt to the factual basis of a part of it, then it casts a shadow on the rest. When one makes ridiculous representation of the scriptures that are contrary to what is written that person must be corrected.
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Post by richbrout on Feb 27, 2007 8:20:34 GMT -5
Listen cut and paster-
You are the fool! You follow which scriptures you want.
Ephesians Chap 6 v 5 "Slaves, obey your masters here on Earth with fear and respect and from a sincere heart, just as you obey Christ."
New Testament- SLAVERY- Now its in the scriptures but the brain God gave me lets me know slavery is wrong even though its in the scripture. Its literalists like you that can't THINK.
There are tons of things in the BIBLE that I am sure you don't obey...but like many fundametalist you are focused on others' sins....or how "lost" I am.... It gives you some sense of superiority to think that you obey God while others thats interpret the Bible differently are "lost"
You are a hypocrit. Perhaps if you had gone somewhere besides BOB JONES UNIVERSITY and were exposed to different people and different ideas you would be a better critical thinker. But like maqny fundamentalist, they like to insulate themselves in their MEGA-CHURCHES with peolple that think like them and can talk all day about how "lost" everybody is that doesn't think like them.
to pervert-misuse or misunderstand---which is what you do You use your literal interpretation of the Bible like a WEAPON, and totally miss the message of Christ.
People are capable of scrolling up and seeing previous posts. They don't need to be spoon fed like weak minded people like you need to be. You are a fool!
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