waste
Newbie Cog
"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I surea as hell won't!" - General George S. Patton
Posts: 34
|
Post by waste on Apr 7, 2007 14:12:00 GMT -5
The gym at my chuch is also the fellowship hall, that houses a kitchen, and a food pantry for the needy.
|
|
|
Post by mercury24 on Apr 7, 2007 14:17:49 GMT -5
The message is still the same when the worship service is different with newer music. Tradition is just that tradition they do it because it was done that way for however long. Well do you think that it was always that way. If thats the case shouldnt we be speaking the the's and thou's. Some of the old church traditional messages are not being preached in some new style churchs. That has nothing to do with the style of worship it has to do with the messenger(preacher). Jesus went to the people who needed the gospel. If it were up to God and Jesus to spread the word then we wouldnt have been told to spread the good news. Jesus told the desciples to pack up and go spread the word. Jesus spoke in parables to teach people. If all it was was for him to speak then why did he have to speak in parables?
|
|
waste
Newbie Cog
"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I surea as hell won't!" - General George S. Patton
Posts: 34
|
Post by waste on Apr 7, 2007 14:21:10 GMT -5
So that people would have to thing about what he said. More than likely groups of people would get together and discuss them.
Works like second-hand smoking.
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on Apr 7, 2007 15:01:43 GMT -5
richbrout-
If churches want a gym so that their youth can do activities, which is a part of bringing interest to other kids that don't go to the church, so what. Should the Catholic church stop spending vast amount's of money on their lavish buildings? Should the pope stop walking around in gold gilded underwear and 1/2 lb blocks of gold jewelry? At least a gym serves a practical purpose.
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on Apr 7, 2007 15:05:12 GMT -5
richbrout,
You should also read the scripture where the apostles got all in a huff because a woman poured expensive perfume on the feet of Jesus. That's what you are sounding like.
|
|
|
Post by espy on Apr 7, 2007 16:58:20 GMT -5
Tailored in delivery not content.
Now I do have a problem with churches building overly extravagant facilities just because of the city it is in, trying to cater to the very rich, in those cases the church is having to use the majority of the tithe to support just the building and grounds, that is NOT spreading the word of God, that is unnecessary fluff.
Take Gardendale's First Baptist, they have a workout room, a two story gym with a running track on the second floor and a kids game room, now tell me how is that helping spread the word of God. Another thing is the elaborate sound and light set up, your talking hundreds of thousands....and for what, to put on a show.......I think its shameful.
|
|
|
Post by blondie on Apr 7, 2007 18:21:24 GMT -5
Jesus was a hippie in 1968 and a neo-con in 2003.
Certainly everyone who's read the 4 canonical gospels would have to agree the Jesus is all about giving all your stuff away. Yet in America he's been portrayed as a capitalist.
People just find whatever they want. They always have.
|
|
|
Post by richbrout on Apr 7, 2007 20:07:58 GMT -5
Your church gym doubles as a kitchen WASTE??? Sounds Nasty.
I guess I just feel church should be more like the Peace corps and less like a Health or country club.
|
|
|
Post by richbrout on Apr 7, 2007 20:12:05 GMT -5
Exactly ESPY-
BriarWORLD, Shades Mtn Independent, Shades Mtn Baptist, Dawson........its ridiculous. But they want their congregations to be insulated: socialize, work out, go to worship, sunday school all at church...that way you don't have to be bothered with people that are different or have different ideas----they ought to stick cots in those gyms and house the homeless
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on Apr 7, 2007 20:48:04 GMT -5
richbrout
What church do you go to. Does it have a website link? I want to see the trailer you guys are worshiping out of.
|
|
|
Post by solinvictus on Apr 7, 2007 21:18:00 GMT -5
All of these "Six Flags Over Jesus" megachurches are nothing but networking opportunities for people to insulate themselves, see and be seen, and to remain within their own socio-economic strata. The last time I checked which, admittedly, was when I was forced to go to church, Christ was all about helping the poor, the downtrodden, the sick, the imprisoned, the prostitutes, and all the other outcasts of contemporary society. I also believe he made a comment which paraphrased said that it's easier to thread a camel through a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven. I guess the head poobah at Dawson Memorial doesn't refer to that scripture much.
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on Apr 7, 2007 21:38:40 GMT -5
How do you know for certain that these mega churches are not "helping the poor, the downtrodden, the sick, the imprisoned, the prostitutes, and all the other outcasts of contemporary society."?
Do you have their budget summaries on file? What if it was a fact that one mega church diverts more resources to the above mentioned people, than the surrounding one room churches in the area? Would that matter to you since you are focusing on money?
|
|
|
Post by espy on Apr 7, 2007 21:48:06 GMT -5
All of these "Six Flags Over Jesus" megachurches are nothing but networking opportunities for people to insulate themselves, see and be seen, and to remain within their own socio-economic strata. The last time I checked which, admittedly, was when I was forced to go to church, Christ was all about helping the poor, the downtrodden, the sick, the imprisoned, the prostitutes, and all the other outcasts of contemporary society. I also believe he made a comment which paraphrased said that it's easier to thread a camel through a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven. I guess the head poobah at Dawson Memorial doesn't refer to that scripture much. Yea, they tend to leave that comparison out of their sermons...the in thing nowadays is that God wants us to be as rich as we can.....nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus says the poor and the meek shall inherit the earth and that we should humble ourselves before the Lord....that is next to impossible when your trying to show off how much money you have.
|
|
|
Post by solinvictus on Apr 7, 2007 21:48:07 GMT -5
...are nothing more than a country club that throws religion around as an excuse to gather. Period.
|
|
|
Post by espy on Apr 7, 2007 21:54:55 GMT -5
...are nothing more than a country club that throws religion around as an excuse to gather. Period. Amen to that brother, I am a true believer in Christ but these churches have driven me away (GFBC), I am currently looking for a more humble church, that believes that we are here for one thing, to worship God and to live our lives in a humble manner in line with our savior Jesus.
|
|
|
Post by espy on Apr 7, 2007 22:01:50 GMT -5
How do you know for certain that these mega churches are not "helping the poor, the downtrodden, the sick, the imprisoned, the prostitutes, and all the other outcasts of contemporary society."? Do you have their budget summaries on file? What if it was a fact that one mega church diverts more resources to the above mentioned people, than the surrounding one room churches in the area? Would that matter to you since you are focusing on money? as a matter of fact, GFBC publishes their budget and the VAST majority of their money goes to running the church itself, of course they do support some missionaries, but its more like our government when it comes to how its distributed. And its not all about the money, its the elaborate concerts, shows and overall attitude that they are "holier than thou". They are going on like you can buy your way into heaven.
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on Apr 7, 2007 22:07:05 GMT -5
Well, here are comments from the questions and attitude that has been raised by some of you on this forum, by somebody that should no more about mega churches than any of us. It is a very interesting read and if you actually listen to what is said and presented, you may want to lower the stirrups on your horse. pewforum.org/events/index.php?EventID=80
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on Apr 7, 2007 22:12:29 GMT -5
This attitude by non-Christians is not a surprise but coming from Christians is. If these churches are bringing souls to the Lord by the means they employ, what buisness is it of yours to critize?
Would you rather they all feed the bellies of souls going to hell? Again, if they grow their membership by new believers, why is it a problem? If they do it through different music, a gym, a library, a concert, buying pizza for the youth group, having a youth group, having a building...I can go on an on.
You guys have no valid leg to stand on.
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on Apr 7, 2007 22:20:47 GMT -5
"as a matter of fact, GFBC publishes their budget and the VAST majority of their money goes to running the church itself"
uhhh. Does the vast majority of any churches funds NOT go to running the respective church?
How about YOUR church...what's the percentage of money going in the church, that isn't used by the church?
How about YOU personally, does the vast amount of your income go to sustaining you and your family or does it go to charity?
Your argument is not persuasive at all.
I don't know what GFBC is, so you are going to have to explain.
|
|
|
Post by Twista on Apr 8, 2007 1:13:17 GMT -5
A two story gym with running track, workout room, and hundreds of thousands spent on lighting and sound systems for entertainment does sound a little more "worldly" than "godly"... I used to go to a rather small church in a small town, and the people seemed to be more... practical... or maybe frugal, about how they used funds to spread the word and maintain the church... (I'm suprised that no one has mentioned the extensive compound that houses the Landover Baptist congregation in Freehold, IA...)
|
|
|
Post by bamagatr on Apr 8, 2007 6:30:07 GMT -5
If these churches are bringing souls to the Lord by the means they employ, what buisness is it of yours to critize?. Didn't Jesus have something to say about this attitude? (John 6:26) You might be mistaking folks who are bringing their appetites to "church" with folks who are bringing their souls to the Lord...but...you are right...I cannot read hearts like Jesus did...
|
|
|
Post by bamagatr on Apr 8, 2007 6:32:19 GMT -5
richbrout, You should also read the scripture where the apostles got all in a huff because a woman poured expensive perfume on the feet of Jesus. That's what you are sounding like. Only one of them did...and he was a known thief...and their treasurer!!
|
|
|
Post by lawman on Apr 8, 2007 8:52:52 GMT -5
richbrout, You should also read the scripture where the apostles got all in a huff because a woman poured expensive perfume on the feet of Jesus. That's what you are sounding like. Only one of them did...and he was a known thief...and their treasurer!! Wow, I believe that's a very important, excellent and insightful point! This is too....I believe--- The Church is God's 'born again' people ........NOT A FANCY BUILDING, OR PLACE!
|
|
waste
Newbie Cog
"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I surea as hell won't!" - General George S. Patton
Posts: 34
|
Post by waste on Apr 8, 2007 10:12:43 GMT -5
Your church gym doubles as a kitchen WASTE??? Sounds Nasty. I guess I just feel church should be more like the Peace corps and less like a Health or country club. No, it has a kitchen in it, along with a fellowship (dining) hall. And There is a large pantry off to the side to house food for the needy.
|
|
|
Post by espy on Apr 8, 2007 11:25:36 GMT -5
"as a matter of fact, GFBC publishes their budget and the VAST majority of their money goes to running the church itself" uhhh. Does the vast majority of any churches funds NOT go to running the respective church? How about YOUR church...what's the percentage of money going in the church, that isn't used by the church? How about YOU personally, does the vast amount of your income go to sustaining you and your family or does it go to charity? Your argument is not persuasive at all. I don't know what GFBC is, so you are going to have to explain. Gardendale First Baptist Church. Money that the church uses to maintain itself doesn't have to be hundreds of thousands on landscaping, expensive sound and light shows. Jesus wants us to live as he did and preach as he did. Where did Jesus speak to the people? Where does Jesus say that we are to put millions into a building for worship? I'm not suggesting we go out to a big field and have services there but the lavishness of some of these facilities is far beyond what is necessary to teach the word of God. The purpose of these churches being built like they are is to attract upscale members and their wallets. Ive been to a couple of these churches around here trying to find a church to start attending, I dress somewhat casual (nice blue jeans and a button up shirt) when I attend. And some of the looks I got from the obviously wealthy people there in their designer outfits looked at me as if I were white trash. Its the mentality of these people who are attending these churches that prove my point. They actually believe that because they are rich that they will be the first in heaven. And I have even sat through a sermon where it was taught that your earthly wealth is in accordance with your heavenly blessings. No where in the bible does it state that God will make you rich here on earth or that its what he even wants of us. To be rich on earth is to glorify yourself not God. Personal wealth will not get you to heaven.
|
|
|
Post by lawman on Apr 8, 2007 11:34:51 GMT -5
"as a matter of fact, GFBC publishes their budget and the VAST majority of their money goes to running the church itself" uhhh. Does the vast majority of any churches funds NOT go to running the respective church? How about YOUR church...what's the percentage of money going in the church, that isn't used by the church? How about YOU personally, does the vast amount of your income go to sustaining you and your family or does it go to charity? Your argument is not persuasive at all. I don't know what GFBC is, so you are going to have to explain. Gardendale First Baptist Church. Money that the church uses to maintain itself doesn't have to be hundreds of thousands on landscaping, expensive sound and light shows. Jesus wants us to live as he did and preach as he did. Where did Jesus speak to the people? Where does Jesus say that we are to put millions into a building for worship? I'm not suggesting we go out to a big field and have services there but the lavishness of some of these facilities is far beyond what is necessary to teach the word of God. The purpose of these churches being built like they are is to attract upscale members and their wallets. Ive been to a couple of these churches around here trying to find a church to start attending, I dress somewhat casual (nice blue jeans and a button up shirt) when I attend. And some of the looks I got from the obviously wealthy people there in their designer outfits looked at me as if I were white trash. Its the mentality of these people who are attending these churches that prove my point. They actually believe that because they are rich that they will be the first in heaven. And I have even sat through a sermon where it was taught that your earthly wealth is in accordance with your heavenly blessings. No where in the bible does it state that God will make you rich here on earth or that its what he even wants of us. To be rich on earth is to glorify yourself not God. Personal wealth will not get you to heaven. Super well put! ( and Totally True)
|
|
|
Post by family1st on Apr 8, 2007 14:22:00 GMT -5
Espy- My family attended and were members of GFBC. It went from humble beginnings to a modern day social-club for the well-to-do and those that seek that status. The worship services are nothing more than showmanship and getting caught up in the moment/experience. You are correct in stating that most of their monies pay for the debt and upkeep of the facilities. You would think a church of that size would spend more on their communities and missions. Just what we need, more ammunition for the Richbrouts' of the world. Phinehas- Our small Fundamentalist church is debt free and is totally focused on reaching unbelievers and helping the needy. There is no need to sugarcoat the Word nor dumb-down the way it is presented. www.solidrockbaptistonline.com/
|
|
waste
Newbie Cog
"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I surea as hell won't!" - General George S. Patton
Posts: 34
|
Post by waste on Apr 8, 2007 17:01:36 GMT -5
Although I love my church, there are a few people there that are actors. They "suddenly" break out into speaking in tounge and make the same sounds over and over again. Then translates it into a big speech into why is noone in there a true believer.
Now don't get me wrong I believe in speaking in tounges and stuff, but when it happens you automatically know what's being said and it doesn't need to be translated. And if there was a need for it to be translated I'd be listening to a form of Yiddish or Latin. Or am I completly off?
And I agree completly abuot the lavish churches.
|
|
|
Post by espy on Apr 8, 2007 17:20:56 GMT -5
Just curious, is there somewhere in the new testament that states that anyone will speak in tongues other that who it was speaking of in the passage. I personally put it into the same category as snake handling and holy rollers, and based on your description it sounds like you really don't buy it yourself.....absolutely no offence, Waste, to your church, that's just my beliefs.
family1st, that is the kind of church I am looking for, only concerned for souls and the teaching of Christ word, not in what your wearing or what you pull up in, too bad its so far away from Gardendale.
|
|
waste
Newbie Cog
"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I surea as hell won't!" - General George S. Patton
Posts: 34
|
Post by waste on Apr 8, 2007 19:27:17 GMT -5
I belive in it, I'm just pretty sure that the same three people at my church being struck by God every third Suday to say, "Bo sha la la!" over and over again is the real deal.
|
|