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Post by espy on Apr 17, 2007 18:23:42 GMT -5
I, for this very reason carry my 9mm every where I go, and I train with it once a week at a local shooting range were we go through real life drills similar to urban combat training. Fate does favor the well prepared. Call me a nut job but the world we live in I think anyone not prepared for the unexpected is a nut job. Faith in God and fate don't mix, PERIOD, espy! If you can't TRUST GOD for your safety, etc., I'm not sure why? I have faith IN God, he allows us to make our own way through life, if we trust in him he will provide for us. God did support wars and he even states that he will destroy our enemies for us, but no where did he say that we are not to protect ourselves and our families from those who would kill us. Jesus says to turn the other cheek but that would only apply if you were still alive to turn it. Its stupid not to be prepared, God and fate do go together because he tells us all throughout the bible to be prepared for his coming and also he tells us to keep our house in order. If you were to put your blind faith in God intervening in all of your daily matters then you wouldn't need to wear seat belts or worry about expiration dates on food or wash your hands......I can go on and on. God wants us to put our trust in him as our Lord and our faith that he will see to it that we have a fruitful life, he wants us to take charge of our life and our security though. Peace to you though for pointing out that we are to wholeheartedly trust in the Lord, I do.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 17, 2007 18:32:58 GMT -5
"Hmm... then what would be a logical reason for this hate the christians example you used? "
I wasn't saying that you did, I was pointing out the lack of substance of using this form of argument. This reasoning is quite common and used by the Left for various social issues against people that disagree with them. I think it's a weak form of argument and implies that you have some mind reading abilities.
Like the Left, you can continue to use it if you so choose. Just remember that you won't actually be able to back up the assertion with any evidence.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 17, 2007 18:45:21 GMT -5
"The Washington Post quoted law enforcement sources as saying Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant." He is muslim.... He left his father after he lost hope to convert him to the right path, and directed his efforts towards the people of the town, but they rejected his call and threatened him. By Allah, he said, I shall plot a plan to destroy their idols. He knew that a big celebration was coming soon, where everybody would leave town for a big feast on the riverbank. After making sure that nobody was left in town, Ibrahim went towards the temple armed with an ax. Statues of all shapes and sizes were sitting there adorned with decorations. Plates of food were offered to them, but the food was untouched. "Well, why don't you eat? The food is getting cold." He said to the statues, joking; then with his ax he destroyed all the statues except one, the biggest of them. He hung the ax around its neck and left.
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Post by lawmanguest on Apr 17, 2007 19:07:09 GMT -5
Faith in God and fate don't mix, PERIOD, espy! If you can't TRUST GOD for your safety, etc., I'm not sure why? faith in God intervening in all of your daily matters then you wouldn't need to wear seat belts or worry about expiration dates on food or wash your hands Interesting, I do have Faith in God not to worry about those things being harmful! Do you not believe this scripture literally? Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
And NO, you don't tempt God and try to mess with poisonous snakes, etc., but HE can protect HIS from harm! It takes FAITH to please God, The Bible says!
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Post by espy on Apr 17, 2007 19:17:05 GMT -5
faith in God intervening in all of your daily matters then you wouldn't need to wear seat belts or worry about expiration dates on food or wash your hands Interesting, I do have Faith in God not to worry about those things being harmful! Do you not believe this scripture literally? Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
And NO, you don't tempt God and try to mess with poisonous snakes, etc., but HE can protect HIS from harm! It takes FAITH to please God, The Bible says! point taken brother......I do have faith and I do believe he protects us from harm, thats why I have never even had to pull the gun out. But if you look at my firs example, I would like to be able to stop someone who is on a shooting rampage, not just protect myself and my family. Peace...
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Post by lawman on Apr 17, 2007 22:43:34 GMT -5
Where's Solomon? Was Solomon bannned?
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Post by Dale Jackson on Apr 17, 2007 23:22:43 GMT -5
He violated the "Gay Policy." He gets a three day time out.
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Post by lawman on Apr 17, 2007 23:26:46 GMT -5
Not sure he was aware of that?
I know this.....he's a sharp, aware poster!
Hope he's back!
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Post by espy on Apr 18, 2007 8:25:46 GMT -5
Dale, I do appreciate you stiking to your guns on your policy but in all fairness he would have had to go back through the forum, find that thread and read that to know it.
I think that if your going to have a policy that will get you banned immediately, you should create a topic heading that shows up on every board so that it is not overlooked.
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Post by lawman on Apr 18, 2007 8:33:44 GMT -5
I thought EXACTLY the same thing! I honestly doubt Solomon even knew of that policy! I'm not sure myself what 'gay policy' is?
Is it not OK to address one's beliefs regarding homosexual behavior anymore! NOT SURE WHAT THIS POLICY IS?
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Post by Dale Jackson on Apr 18, 2007 8:45:40 GMT -5
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Post by killer on Apr 18, 2007 8:49:21 GMT -5
The news is reporting that college campuses are reviewing their safety policies. 33/40 interviewed people at UAB. They said UAB had 17,000 students and 18,000 employees. I assume they were talking about the school only and that the 18,000 did not include UAB Hospital employees. If that's true, do college campuses usually have more employees than students?
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Post by brandon on Apr 18, 2007 18:01:44 GMT -5
Intresting thing is, the first person the "Gay policy" was used on was the target this time. He has been sent an e-mail, all he has to do is respond. Karma?
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Post by phinehas on Apr 18, 2007 21:10:54 GMT -5
LOL. Good natured comment, Brandon. Was hoping to read your view on the Virginia Tech rampage. I am still in the camp that the police did the appropriate steps. Even more so after hearing that they were given information that is was a jilted lover deal and that they found the boyfriend and were questioning him. I think they were following their training AND statisitics. Statistically it wasn't like it was a 50/50 chance that they didn't have the murderer in custody at the time and there was no reason for them to shut the place down. We will see more evidence coming out but at this time, I am not pointing a finger at law enforcement.
There is however a sidebar on the issue that so many people thought he was wack awhile ago but didn't do anything or coudn't do anything. Will see how that plays out and what kind of over reaction will take place on that front.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 18, 2007 21:34:17 GMT -5
Read some more details:
"Police said that after the first shooting, in which two students were killed, they believed that it was a domestic dispute, and that the gunman had fled the campus. Police went looking for a young man, Karl David Thornhill, who had once shot guns at a firing range with the roommate of one of the victims. But police said Thornhill is no longer under suspicion."
"He refers to "martyrs like Eric and Dylan" _ a reference to the teenage killers in the Columbine High massacre."
"You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul and torched my conscience," he says, apparently reading from his manifesto. "You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people."
Like Columbine, looks like another case of a person that didn't fit in and others made sure he knew it.
If that's the case, you would think kids would start to get the message by their parents to not mess with these types of kids. I know when I was in school, more so in middle school and high school, there were a lot of kids that were not "cool" and part of a "group". Even though they were excluded and teased, there didn't seem to be a lot of them flipping out....something has been added to the equation me thinks, since the start of the 90s.
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tusker
Cog in Training
Posts: 68
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Post by tusker on Apr 19, 2007 4:27:41 GMT -5
Like Columbine, looks like another case of a person that didn't fit in and others made sure he knew it. If that's the case, you would think kids would start to get the message by their parents to not mess with these types of kids. I know when I was in school, more so in middle school and high school, there were a lot of kids that were not "cool" and part of a "group". Even though they were excluded and teased, there didn't seem to be a lot of them flipping out....something has been added to the equation me thinks, since the start of the 90s. I've actually heard several reports tonight that stated that there were several people who would just say 'hello' to the guy and he would never respond. Most people, even if they are still immature have grown out of 'treat someone different because they are' mentality by the time they get to college. This guy was seriously messed up and a teacher even suggested he get counseling after taking him aside. This guy was deranged.
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Post by solomon on Apr 19, 2007 8:32:17 GMT -5
Doesn't old Cho sound like Napoleon Dynamite? On a serious note he seemed to be consumed with pride. The thoughts of other people possibly thinking they are better than him "made" him commit 32 murders. He compared himself to Jesus Christ...this guy was filled with bitterness and an ego that was big as Texas.
I think his old medication did not help out too much either. There have been numerous reports of people on Zoloft and other types of drugs committing murders and suicides. I had a friend on Zoloft and I noticed he became more aggressive while taking that garbage.
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Post by dixiepixie on Apr 19, 2007 9:08:59 GMT -5
I think his old medication did not help out too much either. There have been numerous reports of people on Zoloft and other types of drugs committing murders and suicides. I had a friend on Zoloft and I noticed he became more aggressive while taking that garbage. Got to love the fast line at the end of those commercials that say "This medication may increase symptoms in some people"
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Post by solomon on Apr 19, 2007 9:16:32 GMT -5
The disclaimer possibly read: may cause runny nose, fever, bloody nose, asthma, demon possession, strong urges to commit murder and cause your voice box to mimic Napoleon Dynamite.
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Post by blondie on Apr 19, 2007 9:59:57 GMT -5
The disclaimer possibly read: may cause runny nose, fever, bloody nose, asthma, demon possession, strong urges to commit murder and cause your voice box to mimic Napoleon Dynamite. ;D
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Post by phinehas on Apr 19, 2007 10:41:27 GMT -5
I've actually heard several reports tonight that stated that there were several people who would just say 'hello' to the guy and he would never respond. Most people, even if they are still immature have grown out of 'treat someone different because they are' mentality by the time they get to college. This guy was seriously messed up and a teacher even suggested he get counseling after taking him aside. This guy was deranged. Was his lack of response from the beginning of him being on the campus or after awhile. I would beg to differ on how people treat others that don't "fit in". This does not end in middle school and continues on throughout most peoples lives. People exclude in less juvenile ways, for sure but they still do it. I don't doubt that he was excluded as he implied in his messages. I am not saying that is an excuse, only a factor in his lunacy. If it does turn out to be a factor, it would be wise for parents to teach their children, along with other basic manners, to respect other kids while growing up. Like I said, this school rampage stuff has increased for a reason and whatever that reason is, it has not gone away. Maybe there is no solution to the root cause but I wonder if it has been addressed.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 19, 2007 11:32:51 GMT -5
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Post by killer on Apr 19, 2007 11:43:03 GMT -5
No wonder the guy wouldn't talk. Seems like when he used to, kids made fun of him, so he just withdrew.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 19, 2007 12:01:10 GMT -5
Granted, he is responsible for his actions but this needs to be a part of the discussion as to why it occurs with some people. How many incidents need to occur for the concept of children picking on other children should be looked at. Like I said before, not certain if you can stop it but there seems to be a pattern and some other issue(s) that are a part of the recipe that has caused the rampages. I think the rampages all started happening since the 90s for the most part.
I wonder if there will be a repeat similar to below:
"As the date of the shooting neared, Harris also began noting the completion of pipe bombs on his site, as well as a gun count and "hit list" of individuals he wished to target, although it never mentioned his overall plot.[4] As Harris had admitted to having explosives, Guerra decided to write a draft affidavit for a search warrant of the Harris household, but it was never filed. The existence of the affidavit was concealed by Jefferson County and not revealed to the public until September 2001, as the direct result of an investigation by the television show 60 Minutes. After the release of the affidavit, a series of grand jury investigations were launched into the cover-up activities of the Jefferson County officials. The investigation revealed that high-ranking officials of Jefferson County had come together a few days after the massacre to discuss the release of the affidavit to the public. It was decided that because the affidavit's contents lacked the necessary probable cause to have supported the issuance of a search warrant for the Harris household by a judge, it would be best not to disclose the affidavit's existence at an upcoming press conference, although the actual conversations and points of discussion were never revealed to anyone other than the Grand Jury members. Following the press conference, the original Guerra documents disappeared. In September 1999, a Jefferson County investigator failed to find the documents during a secret search of the county's computer system. A second attempt in late 2000 found copies of the document within the Jefferson County archives. The documents were reconstructed and released to the public in September 2001, but the original documents are still missing. The final grand jury investigation was released in September 2004."
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Post by W.O.M.I on Apr 19, 2007 17:49:37 GMT -5
For the record, I was bullied on and off from about the fifth grade until my junior year in high school. I've not picked up a gun and blown away all my tormentors, nor have I been tempted to do so.
The ultimate responsibility for the evil acts done by this kid are HIS OWN.
Now, take this for what it's worth...
Michael Savage is reporting that the boy's family lived in......
>Saudi Arabia<
...for several years until they could earn enough money to emigrate to the United States.
He used the term "charlatan" several times in his manifesto. That's not a very common word in useage today.......except in the Koran and by Muslims.
And at least a possible etymology of "Ismael axe" has been voiced here before. Yep...it's Koranic and Islamic too.
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Post by brandon on Apr 19, 2007 18:19:33 GMT -5
Was hoping to read your view on the Virginia Tech rampage. I am still in the camp that the police did the appropriate steps. You know from reading many of my past posts that I will be the first to say that police screwed up if that is in fact the case. I haven't seen anything in this instance at VT that leads me to believe that the police or the chancellor did anything wrong. It's all hindsight at this point. We should all try to remember that the police were working the situation in "realtime." The first trouble that I have with blaming the college officials is the argument that they should have "locked down" the campus. It's easy to say the term "lock down" but what does that mean exactly? Do you mean set up roadblocks at all the entrances and exits? Ok, fine. That's reasonable. But as someone said, I think Murphy, the students don't disappear. They're still in class. If you do dismiss class, where are the students now? They're going to be somewhere whether it be the dorms, the student union, the intramural fields, etc. Do these people mean that a police officer should have gone to stand guard at each of the university's buildings? I don't know how large VT is, but most major universities have hundreds of buildings. Where do you get enough policemen to cover each building? Do you bring them from the city or county as backup? Now who's guarding the city and county? What if the gunman ran into city hall and shot up the place and all the policemen were in campus buildings? They had no idea that the gunman didn't leave campus right after the shootings. Furthermore, how were the police to know that this was anything but a domestic-type dispute where a boyfriend went to a girl's dorm to kill her? They don't have a crystal ball to show them that the guy is going to go on a rampage. There are also other factors in play that the non-law enforcement public fail to take into consideration. Years ago, I responded to a shotgun suicide at a public university men's dorm. We, the police, didn't run down the halls yelling, "There's been a suicide!" You want to find the family and go to their house/work to tell them in person. You do not want one of the victim's friends calling up the victim's family before they have been notified and saying "Sorry about Billy killing himself." We kept the suicide a secret until the family was contacted. I'm sure that the police in this situation were trying to do the same thing. They wanted to keep everything under wraps until the family of the first two victims was notified in person. Maybe the family is out-of-state. That situation takes even longer to resolve with regards to family notification. If the police announce that there's been a double murder in one of the dorms, every students' parents are going to flood the police with calls to check on their kids. It creates panic to wantonly announce such a tragedy. I don't know all the facts, only what we've all seen on TV. But I haven't heard anything as of yet that makes me believe that they reacted inappropriately.
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Post by brandon on Apr 19, 2007 18:34:37 GMT -5
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Post by Dale Jackson on Apr 19, 2007 18:38:53 GMT -5
The ultimate responsibility for the evil acts done by this kid are HIS OWN. Now, take this for what it's worth... Michael Savage is reporting that the boy's family lived in...... >Saudi Arabia< ...for several years until they could earn enough money to emigrate to the United States. He used the term "charlatan" several times in his manifesto. That's not a very common word in useage today.......except in the Koran and by Muslims. And at least a possible etymology of "Ismael axe" has been voiced here before. Yep...it's Koranic and Islamic too. Let me sarcastically get this out of the way... Glass Parking Lot
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Post by brandon on Apr 19, 2007 18:41:47 GMT -5
I had to look that one up.
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Post by Dale Jackson on Apr 19, 2007 18:56:31 GMT -5
?
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