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Post by killerdoc on Apr 10, 2007 3:14:07 GMT -5
WE ARE ALL WITNESSING ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS CONVERSATIONS EVER. A FEW PEOPLE POSTING MULTIPLE RANTS ABOUT RELIGION. MOST OF US FEEL ITS AN UNWINABLE ARGUMENT. WHO IS WRONG? WHO IS RIGHT? REGARDLESS, ITS AN ISSUE BEST LEFT TO PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN DISSENTER'S. INSTEAD , IT HAS TURNED INTO A SLIMEPIT OF ARGUMENTATIVE TYPES WHO SEEM TO NOT HAVE ANY LIFE OUTSIDE OF KEYBOARD DUTY. THEY HAVE CARRIED THIS THING INTO A 2ND WEEK AND THEIR VIEWPOINTS ARE BY NOW PRETTY MUCH KNOWN. YOU HAVE AN ATHEIST, AN AGNOSTIC AND SEVERAL WHO TAKE VARIOUS POINTS FROM DAY TO DAY. AND, ONE WHO WOULD ARGUE THE COLOR OF THE SKY IF GIVEN A CHANCE. THIS ONE STRIKES ME AS A REALLY SAD SACK, AND WE ALL KNOW WHO I MEAN. I STOPPED READING LONG AGO AND SCROLL RIGHT THROUGH THEM. ITS A SHAME. THEY ARE ADDING A TONE NOT NEEDED HERE.
THIS IS SUCH A GREAT FORUM. I LOVE IT. I HAVE SEEN OTHERS. THEY DON'T EQUAL THIS ONE. I HOPE THE DEBATE IS OVER. END IT NOW. MAKE RELIGION A SEPARATE ROOM ALL BY ITSELF SO THOSE BOZOS CAN DEBATE THEMSELVES 24-7. SAVE THE MAIN FORUM AREAS FOR LIFE ISSUES. AFTER ALL, WE ARE HERE TO IMPROVE, ENJOY, LEARN AND GIVE BACK, RIGHT? A LITTLE TWEAKING HERE COULD MAKE THE DIFFERENCE.
THANKS FOR LISTENING. ADIOS
DOC
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Post by bamagatr on Apr 10, 2007 3:26:03 GMT -5
whew...kinda loud in here, too...
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rich
Cog in Training
Posts: 70
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Post by rich on Apr 10, 2007 9:22:12 GMT -5
I totally agree, Doc. FYI, though, the caps lock key is the fourth one down on the far left.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 10, 2007 9:27:35 GMT -5
This is a forum, right?
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Post by blondie on Apr 10, 2007 9:32:19 GMT -5
SPEAK UP! I CAN'T HEAR YOU! ;D
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rich
Cog in Training
Posts: 70
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Post by rich on Apr 10, 2007 9:36:17 GMT -5
Sure. You gotta admit, though, it's one of those things that is just not going to be resolved. The militant athiests vs. the Christians of all shape and size ... neither side is going to see the point of the other. That said, though, I don't personally care if they want to keep it going ... I'm just amazed, really. It's kind of masochistic on both sides. But, to each his or her own. I just really popped in here to mildy agree at the futility of it all while having some fun with doc over his penchant for capitalization.
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Post by blondie on Apr 10, 2007 9:47:40 GMT -5
Sure. You gotta admit, though, it's one of those things that is just not going to be resolved. The militant athiests vs. the Christians of all shape and size ... neither side is going to see the point of the other. I disagree, all gods eventually go away. Besides America and the third world, Christianity's no longer relevant.
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Post by espy on Apr 10, 2007 9:55:41 GMT -5
I dont remember anyone praising zeus or rah, our god is eternal and will never go away.
Man, I would hate to be standing next to you in a thunderstorm.
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cw
Cog in Training
Posts: 60
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Post by cw on Apr 10, 2007 10:00:13 GMT -5
I dont remember anyone praising zeus or rah, our god is eternal and will never go away. Man, I would hate to be standing next to you in a thunderstorm. Nah, she's the very reason Christ died. He loves her.
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rich
Cog in Training
Posts: 70
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Post by rich on Apr 10, 2007 10:19:48 GMT -5
I disagree, all gods eventually go away. Besides America and the third world, Christianity's no longer relevant. Hey, I'm an agnostic, so there's really no point in debating the validity of any religion or lack thereof with me. More to the point of your reply, though, is do you feel that incessantly pointing out the inconsistancies of the Bible and attacking people's religious beliefs is going to single-handedly put a stop to Christianity or Islam or whatever? (Because, obviously, I meant the neverending debate is inherently futile ... not one stance or the other.) Is that your goal? I'm not attacking it, I'm just asking. If you're just doing it for pure entertainment purposes, I can respect that. Forums thrive on lively debate and everyone seems to enjoy it, I guess. So, I'm not trying to stop you ... just curious as to whether you're trying to win hearts and minds for the godless heathens and whether or not you've considered it's just as unreasonable an idea as them converting you. And, of course, then there's oxymoronical idea of an evangelical athiest to consider, and the inherent irony of an athiest - a group typically against the "convert them at all costs" mindset of some religious sects- trying so hard to convert folks. ;D
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Post by espy on Apr 10, 2007 10:24:25 GMT -5
Very well put, rich.....
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Post by espy on Apr 10, 2007 10:25:52 GMT -5
I dont remember anyone praising zeus or rah, our god is eternal and will never go away. Man, I would hate to be standing next to you in a thunderstorm. Nah, she's the very reason Christ died. He loves her. You are very correct, I have tried to make that point to him/her. now is that an admission, do you know for a fact that blondie is a girl........
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Post by blondie on Apr 10, 2007 10:30:42 GMT -5
I disagree, all gods eventually go away. Besides America and the third world, Christianity's no longer relevant. Hey, I'm an agnostic, so there's really no point in debating the validity of any religion or lack thereof with me. More to the point of your reply, though, is do you feel that incessantly pointing out the inconsistancies of the Bible and attacking people's religious beliefs is going to single-handedly put a stop to Christianity or Islam or whatever? (Because, obviously, I meant the neverending debate is inherently futile ... not one stance or the other.) Is that your goal? I'm not attacking it, I'm just asking. If you're just doing it for pure entertainment purposes, I can respect that. Forums thrive on lively debate and everyone seems to enjoy it, I guess. So, I'm not trying to stop you ... just curious as to whether you're trying to win hearts and minds for the godless heathens and whether or not you've considered it's just as unreasonable an idea as them converting you. And, of course, then there's oxymoronical idea of an evangelical athiest to consider, and the inherent irony of an athiest - a group typically against the "convert them at all costs" mindset of some religious sects- trying so hard to convert folks. ;D Little bit of entertainment, little bit of evangelical Atheism. I'm pretty sure that if people will actually study the Bible and Christianity they will move away from fundamentalism. This is like recycling for me. Just doing my little part for humanity.
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Post by dixiepixie on Apr 10, 2007 10:38:57 GMT -5
Isn't there some nice "We hate Jesus" forum that is missing it's king?
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Post by mamawolf on Apr 10, 2007 10:54:58 GMT -5
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rich
Cog in Training
Posts: 70
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Post by rich on Apr 10, 2007 11:06:19 GMT -5
Isn't there some nice "We hate Jesus" forum that is missing it's king? Ok, that is some funny shit, I don't care which side of the argument you're on. Gah ... late for a lunch meeting. More on this later.
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Post by bamagatr on Apr 10, 2007 11:23:49 GMT -5
way to go, killer...
you started another religious discussion in the "wrong forum"...
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Post by blondie on Apr 10, 2007 11:26:02 GMT -5
Picking apart the scriptures and pulling meaning from them out of context instead of looking at them as part of the whole word of God has been done for years and will continue to be done by those who would either sculpt the word to their own advantage or those who attempt to prove the word is fallable (which it is not). This is why there is wisdom in the fact that religion should never be debated or argued. If one is not ready to accept God as the supreme being that he is, no amount of debate or arguing will change that person's heart or mind. Once a person is ready, there will be no NEED to argue or debate the bible. I disagree. Do you have any idea how the Religion is taught in accredited colleges? Not theology. Religion. The assumption is that there is no supernatural element to it whatsoever. You may dismiss this altogether, but an objective study will reveal who really knows what they're talking about. This guy is very smart and knows his Bible inside and out: www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/
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Post by bamagatr on Apr 10, 2007 11:28:53 GMT -5
...Christianity's no longer relevant. You sure expend a lot of energy trying to dispel something that is "no longer relevant."
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Post by mamawolf on Apr 10, 2007 12:10:29 GMT -5
Just because someone is deemed smart by his peers and knows the bible verse by verse does Not make him knowledgeable in God's word.
If I were to look to an author outside of the bible, I would look more toward C.S. Lewis than robert price.
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 10, 2007 12:24:01 GMT -5
*GASP* But C.S. Lewis is not an "Objective Source", right Blondie?
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rich
Cog in Training
Posts: 70
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Post by rich on Apr 10, 2007 12:27:58 GMT -5
::heavy sigh::
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Post by dixiepixie on Apr 10, 2007 12:43:04 GMT -5
Isn't there some nice "We hate Jesus" forum that is missing it's king? Ok, that is some funny shit, I don't care which side of the argument you're on. Gah ... late for a lunch meeting. More on this later. Well, it was nicer than saying "The mayor of your village called and wanted to know what time to expect you back, they miss you"
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rich
Cog in Training
Posts: 70
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Post by rich on Apr 10, 2007 13:23:07 GMT -5
Oh, no, don't apologize. I thought it was great. I'm reminded constantly during these religious vs. atheist discussions of the episode of South Park where the Mormon kid takes the others to task for their bigotry: Gary: "All I ever did was try to be your friend, Stan, but you're so high and mighty you couldn't look past my religion and just be my friend back. You've got a lot of growing up to do, buddy. Suck my balls."
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Post by dixiepixie on Apr 10, 2007 13:42:26 GMT -5
I am trying very hard to be nicer. I had to put $1.50 in the naughty jar at work this weekend. A buck fifty doesn't sound like a lot until you think about it being .10 a pop. That means I was mean, rude or nasty 15 times....That there were witness for. ;D
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Post by blondie on Apr 10, 2007 14:27:01 GMT -5
Just because someone is deemed smart by his peers and knows the bible verse by verse does Not make him knowledgeable in God's word. If I were to look to an author outside of the bible, I would look more toward C.S. Lewis than robert price. I like C.S Lewis. But I wouldn't put him in the same category with Price. Lewis wasn't a Bible scholar, he was just a good writer. Here's a fair article: "The engaging prose and charming analogies of Mere Christianity present a shimmering exterior. But scratch it and it quickly crumbles. All too often, Lewis' arguments oversimplify and fail to come to grips with the fundamental doubts of the nonbeliever. What, then, accounts for the enduring popularity of Mere Christianity? It is hard to escape the conclusion that Lewis is preaching to a very receptive choir." www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1374/is_6_63/ai_110459881
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Post by mamawolf on Apr 10, 2007 16:15:43 GMT -5
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Post by blondie on Apr 10, 2007 16:33:13 GMT -5
touche I've read Mere Christianity twice. Here's my satire of Lewis' style: Imagine your way of thinking is a rickety, old bicycle and my way of thinking is a brand new corvette. Wouldn't you rather ride around in a brand new corvette than a rickety, old bicycle? Also his Liar, Lunatic or Lord argument is a logical fallacy. Why not liar, Lunatic, Lord or Legend? I thought the Humanist was more objective than this: www.infidels.org/library/modern/gaunilo2/mere.htmlThough I think this one is more to the point.
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Post by bamagatr on Apr 10, 2007 16:38:54 GMT -5
Imagine your way of thinking is a rickety, old bicycle and my way of thinking is a brand new corvette. Imagine that, indeed!!
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Post by mamawolf on Apr 10, 2007 21:03:42 GMT -5
touche I've read Mere Christianity twice. Here's my satire of Lewis' style: Imagine your way of thinking is a rickety, old bicycle and my way of thinking is a brand new corvette. Wouldn't you rather ride around in a brand new corvette than a rickety, old bicycle? Also his Liar, Lunatic or Lord argument is a logical fallacy. Why not liar, Lunatic, Lord or Legend? I thought the Humanist was more objective than this: www.infidels.org/library/modern/gaunilo2/mere.htmlThough I think this one is more to the point. www.infidels.org/infidels/So naturalism entails the nonexistence of all supernatural beings, including the theistic God."Again, considering the source, it is merely that writers opinion, which I, in my own opinion, choose to disagree with. In reading the Bible, he must deal with the two disparate accounts of Jesus' lineage in Matthew and Luke and with the fact that both trace his genealogy through Joseph, not Mary.As to the above statement, there is no concern that Jesus lineage is traced through Joseph...as it SHOULD be according to Jewish laws. If you look at the bible in full instead of one portion out of context and understand Jewish laws of that time you will note that looking at Mary's lineage, she is also of the line of David. Mathew is telling of Joseph's lineage and Luke is telling of Mary's.
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