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Post by kevin on May 9, 2007 17:20:31 GMT -5
Article: Pro-lifers Charged Again in NebraskaSome freedom of speech violations going on here, but I didn't list the article just for that. I'm trying to figure one statement out: "Ms. Pender has since quit working at Carhart's Bellevue, Nebraska, abortion mill, claiming the prayers of the Christians contributed to her developing mental instability." What?!?!?
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Post by Twista on May 9, 2007 23:46:18 GMT -5
I suppose it's possible... One science teacher in my home town was also a preacher for a local church, and a pretty successful one at that... (Both teacher and preacher...) I hadn't heard about him in years, but my brother met up with him a while back, and told me that the guy was working in a dish room of a hospital washing pots and pans. Apparently, the guy said that the church leaders made him feel so guilty about enjoying anything in life that he went nuts and was institutionalized for several years...
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Post by richbrout on May 10, 2007 7:02:12 GMT -5
doesn't suprise me at all. They'll NEVER get me!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by kevin on May 10, 2007 7:18:32 GMT -5
I suppose it's possible... One science teacher in my home town was also a preacher for a local church, and a pretty successful one at that... (Both teacher and preacher...) I hadn't heard about him in years, but my brother met up with him a while back, and told me that the guy was working in a dish room of a hospital washing pots and pans. Apparently, the guy said that the church leaders made him feel so guilty about enjoying anything in life that he went nuts and was institutionalized for several years... I'll be one of the first to agree that this kind of stuff gives organized Christianity a bad name and rightly so. Legalistic churches do way more harm than any good that may come from them. John 10:10 says "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly." Now this abundance is not material possessions but and abundance of joy, peace, long suffering, etc. -- fruits of the spirit. Legalistic Christians (and the churches they are part of) rob Christians of their joy if they let it happen. I like some stuff I read here: What if Christian teachings fill me with guilt...?. The 2nd line says it all: No one left the presence of Jesus feeling worthless.
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Post by fragerella on May 10, 2007 10:03:10 GMT -5
Thank God I burned that diploma I received from Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt.
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Post by Twista on May 10, 2007 23:01:44 GMT -5
Thank God I burned that diploma I received from Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt. LOL... Here is something I came across today in one of our freebie newspapers... "Are Babies Sinners?" (Part 1) Part 1? LOL! Anyone who worries about how sinful their baby is really needs to look at themself first...
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Post by lawman on May 11, 2007 7:03:41 GMT -5
So, you went there also? Have you recovered?
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Post by phinehas on May 17, 2007 21:00:46 GMT -5
Good for operation rescue.
"claiming the prayers of the Christians contributed to her developing mental instability."
I would consider most people that murder others to be mentally unstable.
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Post by kevin on May 17, 2007 21:48:14 GMT -5
Good for operation rescue. "claiming the prayers of the Christians contributed to her developing mental instability." I would consider most people that murder others to be mentally unstable. Just out of curiosity, do you truly believe that most people outside of Christianity view abortion as murder? I know there are many more pro-lifers amongst Christians than the general populace, but there are some pro-lifers who are agnostic/atheistic. The reason I ask this is because I think we often put the cart before the horse. We tell people they are doing something wrong but we don't provide any option other than "turn or burn". That may be the harsh truth as we see it, but how many people take the message in the right way if we point the finger first. I encourage you to go back and read John 4 and figure out how Jesus approached people.
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Post by phinehas on May 18, 2007 1:30:46 GMT -5
Yes, they know it is murder.
Please explain to me the grey area of murder.
hmmm, coming from your gynecologist post, I don't see you being in a position to tell me to go back and read anything about how to approach people. That being said, why don't you read 16-18 again and tell me where Jesus didn't point the finger. There is no difference in that and if he talked with a woman who had an abortion. "Go get your child so that I may see him" or words to that effect...and the response from the woman being....or "Well Doctor, let me see the pictures of all the beautiful babies that the mothers have sent in that you helped to deliver" or words to that effect...and the response of the abortion doctor being.....
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Post by kevin on May 18, 2007 6:21:24 GMT -5
Yes, they know it is murder. Please explain to me the grey area of murder. hmmm, coming from your gynecologist post, I don't see you being in a position to tell me to go back and read anything about how to approach people. That being said, why don't you read 16-18 again and tell me where Jesus didn't point the finger. There is no difference in that and if he talked with a woman who had an abortion. "Go get your child so that I may see him" or words to that effect...and the response from the woman being....or "Well Doctor, let me see the pictures of all the beautiful babies that the mothers have sent in that you helped to deliver" or words to that effect...and the response of the abortion doctor being..... Yes people know about murder. That is black and white. But I'm talking about abortion, not killing someone who is outside of the womb. I think abortion is murder, but I asked you if ALL PEOPLE think abortion is murder. Time and time again, many pro-choicers have said they do not, that the fetus is not human. So they don't believe it is murder. Why do you presume to know more about what other people know than the people who are saying it? As for the gynecologist post, what are you talking about? The picture? If so, lighten up dude. You're starting to sound like lawman. I have a sense of humor and that picture is probably the closest I ever get to being off-color. Don't be a Pharisee. I did not say Jesus didn't point the finger. Look at my post. Its all about wording and context, and you didn't catch my point. Here, I'll repeat it for you Now go back and read John 4 again. Jesus made the offer of living water PRIOR to showing that he knew of her life. Not the other way around. He did not point out that she had 5 husbands and was now living with a man before he offered her salvation. That is where many Christians err -- all they do is point out people's sins and they don't tell people of salvation. What is the point in telling someone they are offending God and letting it stop there? Who knows what the prayers these abortion protesters said consisted of? If they were true they would pray for the salvation of the abortionists. If you are a Christian, then you know that many people do not turn from what they are doing in offense to God until they inherit the Holy Spirit through acceptance of Christ. It would be like going to the doctor and him telling you that you had some disease and then not proceeding with measures for a cure. "Gee fella, you sure are sick," doc says. "OK, so now what do we do?" asks the patient. "Hmmm, oh nothing. You should have taken better care of yourself." Sadly, there are too many who like to point out the faults of non-believers and would like to blame the world's present situation on them. But how many go to them in love and tell them of the living water? That's the difference and if you haven't grasped it, you haven't grasped who Jesus was.
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lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
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Post by lawman on May 18, 2007 6:37:36 GMT -5
Quote ''As for the gynecologist post, what are you talking about? The picture? If so, lighten up dude. You're starting to sound like lawman. I have a sense of humor and that picture is probably the closest I ever get to being off-color. Don't be a Pharisee.''
And you still sound like a 'Fool'........ Stop the the un-called for insults, or DON'T PREACH!
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Post by kevin on May 18, 2007 6:44:16 GMT -5
Oh no, I mentioned his name ;D.
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Post by zoomixer on May 18, 2007 8:03:15 GMT -5
Let's what happens if I mention it.
.......lawman......
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Post by phinehas on May 18, 2007 12:08:25 GMT -5
"Time and time again, many pro-choicers have said they do not, that the fetus is not human. So they don't believe it is murder. Why do you presume to know more about what other people know than the people who are saying it?"
It's a rationalization for something they know is wrong. In other words, they try to fool themselves to assuage guilt. Plain and simple.
I consider that "joke" to be more than off-color. It was vulgar.
Ok, as far as John 4, my statement was about my opinion that the woman that became "mentally unstable" was already mentally unstable and it was apparent by her choice of work. I am not on full time preacher duty on this forum...are you? If so, then you need to re-think the vugarity level of your jokes.
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Post by lawman on May 18, 2007 14:04:18 GMT -5
"Time and time again, many pro-choicers have said they do not, that the fetus is not human. So they don't believe it is murder. Why do you presume to know more about what other people know than the people who are saying it?" It's a rationalization for something they know is wrong. In other words, they try to fool themselves to assuage guilt. Plain and simple. I consider that "joke" to be more than off-color. It was vulgar. Ok, as far as John 4, my statement was about my opinion that the woman that became "mentally unstable" was already mentally unstable and it was apparent by her choice of work. I am not on full time preacher duty on this forum...are you? If so, then you need to re-think the vugarity level of your jokes. I'll acknowledge the TRUTH, regardless of the fact 'who' brings it to the forefront! With that said......... I completely confirm and AGREE with the above post regarding vulgarity 'jokes' from anyone who thinks they can 'Quote' scripture with any 'Correct Authority?'
They/he is greatly deceived .....from my perception!
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Post by kevin on May 18, 2007 18:14:45 GMT -5
Oh no, I mentioned his name ;D.
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Post by kevin on May 18, 2007 18:24:50 GMT -5
"Time and time again, many pro-choicers have said they do not, that the fetus is not human. So they don't believe it is murder. Why do you presume to know more about what other people know than the people who are saying it?" It's a rationalization for something they know is wrong. In other words, they try to fool themselves to assuage guilt. Plain and simple. I consider that "joke" to be more than off-color. It was vulgar. Ok, as far as John 4, my statement was about my opinion that the woman that became "mentally unstable" was already mentally unstable and it was apparent by her choice of work. I am not on full time preacher duty on this forum...are you? If so, then you need to re-think the vugarity level of your jokes. Dude, let's not go back and forth with the finger pointing thing. You use expletives on here quite often and I don't say a word. I consider them vulgar too. Leave it be because you solve nothing but some one upmanship competition which serves no purpose but to boost (falsely) egos. If you actually look at the theme of my original post, I felt similar in that she was likely off kilter to begin with. I was pointing out the absurdity that "prayers" could cause a mental breakdown. I don't know that I can agree with you. People just don't have the same morals so therefore many can go to bed and sleep soundly regardless of these things. For instance, many radical Muslims are convinced that suicide bombing will result in a heavenly ascension for themselves. You really have to believe pretty hard in something -- that it is for glory, good, and honor -- to be willing to kill yourself for it.
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Post by phinehas on May 18, 2007 19:23:18 GMT -5
Dude, you are right, let's not go there...I won't point out your gyno jokes if you don't point out my "whatever you think it was that required me to read John 4" proclivity. You are right, my language is vulgar, I will clean it up. As far as your other comments.....one should ponder whether or not God created humans with a built in ability to have emotions that are utilized for the purpose of having a basic value system in our core being. It's called a conscience and doesn't rely on moral teachings. There are individuals that do not have this mentally and they are what is termed as psychopaths. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy"What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony." - Robert Hare. My premise is that God designed people with what is called a conscience and baring a mental issue, my friend, is why I stated confidently: "It's a rationalization for something they know is wrong. In other words, they try to fool themselves to assuage guilt. Plain and simple."
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Post by kevin on May 18, 2007 19:32:24 GMT -5
Dude, you are right, let's not go there...I won't point out your gyno jokes if you don't point out my "whatever you think it was that required me to read John 4" proclivity. You are right, my language is vulgar, I will clean it up. As far as your other comments.....one should ponder whether or not God created humans with a built in ability to have emotions that are utilized for the purpose of having a basic value system in our core being. It's called a conscience and doesn't rely on moral teachings. There are individuals that do not have this mentally and they are what is termed as psychopaths. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy"What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony." - Robert Hare. My premise is that God designed people with what is called a conscience and baring a mental issue, my friend, is why I stated confidently: "It's a rationalization for something they know is wrong. In other words, they try to fool themselves to assuage guilt. Plain and simple." Actually, my intention was not to show where You were wrong by referring to John 4! Now I see why you were miffed at me . I was talking more along the lines of people who cast out judgments against people's behavior but don't offer them the alternative. Its one-sided and serves no purpose. I was speculating on what these Pro-lifers may have been doing. Sorry if you took it as me saying you were that type. Anyway, if we look back at the basic concept that man was (and is) created in God's image, you're 100% correct. But I think that exposure to certian things in life blurs out some moral issues. How else can some people be so bigoted? Most were raised to believe in something and many times those beliefs are counter to natural human instinct.
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Post by phinehas on May 18, 2007 19:52:58 GMT -5
John 4...I see now. In their defense though, you are making the assumption that these Pro-Lifers didn't offer the alternative prior to, during or after, using the option of shame. Maybe they didn't, I didn't read anything in it either way from the article. I do agree with you that the offering of the water needs to procede first. I think perhaps Christians assume that people know of the water and or understand the offer, when that assumption should not be made.
I agree with you slightly...but in the example of bigotry...there is a difference between yelling out a racial slur from a passing car going 60mph and what it takes, mentally to personally approach another human being, assualt them and drag them from the back of your truck till they die. In other words....talk is cheap and when it comes down to actions...most people, know when they did something wrong and a violation of the basic value core has been breeched. That is when they talk themselves into the grey zone and are able to sleep at night.
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