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Post by richbrout on May 5, 2007 9:10:45 GMT -5
I've never started a thread on homosexuality that i can recall.
I guess our experiences with Christian churches is different. Shades Mtn Baptist, Dawson, Church at Brookhills, Briarworld, Hunter st baptist.. They all have multiMILLION $ facilities including gyms and recreation centers......I've never heard of them having a homeless shelter or orphanage on site. Can you tell me which one of these churches has those? Maybe I am mistaken. IF they all had them, shouldn't non members be made more aware of these outreach facilities than they are their MASSIVE MEGA churches?
I mean I know they all have big gyms, i don't know if any have prhanages or shelters.
I think the fact that more Christians are outside yelling down young girls making the toughest decisions in their life outside Planned Parenthood than actually helping children that are alive is exactly why Rick Warren and what he is doing was in the papers and getting so much press-He's answering a criticism that has been levied against Christians that is valid.
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Post by phinehas on May 5, 2007 9:28:58 GMT -5
Let's see, what's the percentage of churches that are mega-churches in the United States? That's right, very small. The vast majority of churches and Christians directly or indirectly, through their generosity, help the "down trodden" of the planet.
I think this is where your perception has become skewed. Apparently, your only contact with churches and other Christians are through the lens of mega churches. There can be no other explanation.
Why don't you visit some non-mega churches and get the view of 99% of the other existing churches and what they do.
I never said that most churches have facilities on site. Most churches give monetary assistance to women's shelters, etc. I did go to a church that donated land to a facility. That facility took care of mothers through their pregnancies, ie. they clothed them, sheltered them, fed them and counseled them and did other things to help them after the birth of the children. Other than the land donation, that facility continued to receive funds and other services from the church.
You are jaded by what you see at mega-churches and can't or won't see past it.
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Post by richbrout on May 5, 2007 9:59:37 GMT -5
Mega Churches are tremendously popular in the US and are growing.
You don't have to be from a mega church to be obsessed with the perceived "war against Christianity".
I'm thankful for the examples you gave. If the majority of churches would follow their lead, many of our social problems would be gone.
Example: Let's say every church in the US that had over 1,000 members had a fully funded orphanage or shelter on site paid for by the church and manned by voluteering church members. That would go a long way to fixing the problem and it would probably bring people to Christ.
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Post by richbrout on May 5, 2007 10:05:47 GMT -5
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Post by richbrout on May 5, 2007 10:10:14 GMT -5
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Post by richbrout on May 5, 2007 10:14:52 GMT -5
or these www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYBADUS7dac&mode=related&search=I could go on ALL DAY. I have been shouted at by nutty christians like this outside almost every stadium I go to. There is always some nutjob at Southside. Maybe its seeing folks like this that make me think some Christians are way out of whack.
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Post by kevin on May 5, 2007 10:14:57 GMT -5
I think the fact that more Christians are outside yelling down young girls making the toughest decisions in their life outside Planned Parenthood than actually helping children that are alive is exactly why Rick Warren and what he is doing was in the papers and getting so much press-He's answering a criticism that has been levied against Christians that is valid. Speaking of Rick Warren, this looks none too tasty: Rick Warren, Purpose-Driven Pornography?And no, I didn't go looking for dirt on Rick Warren. My website has newsfeeds on it and t was one of the items I saw here (it will likely be gone if you look tomorrow or even later today because the feeds refresh every several hours). Don't know much about Mr. Warren but I respect what he does for Christianity. Remember, we are human and thus imperfect.
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Post by richbrout on May 5, 2007 10:18:23 GMT -5
No doubt- and most Christians are awesome but there are tons of NUTS, and even more that a re a little nutty.
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Post by richbrout on May 5, 2007 10:28:07 GMT -5
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Post by phinehas on May 5, 2007 10:33:27 GMT -5
rich We will have to agree to disagree because my opinion is that the facts show the majority of churches DO support the poor, the homeless, the mother thinking of an abortion, etc.. A portion of funds a church recieves from it's members and guests is used for these purposes. I would highly doubt that you will find ANY church that doesn't do this, mega or otherwise. web.info.com/infocom.us2/search/web/Christian%20Charity?CMP=2772&itkw=Christian%20Charityeven mega-churches.... "Service to the Community Almost all megachurches (99%) provide some sort of food assistance (either through a food pantry or soup kitchen) to the needy in their communities. Other service programs that megachurches said they provided or supported independently included: Congregational Social Ministry Programs (Support is defined as material or financial contribution, member volunteer time, or space in building. Percent of churches reporting these activities.) cash or vouchers given to families or individuals 91% programs for youth and teens 99% counseling services or support groups 95% hospitals & nursing homes 80% prison ministries 91% thrift store or thrift store donations 78% temporary or permanent housing/shelter 78% senior citizen programs 84% substance abuse & 12 step programs 85% hirr.hartsem.edu/org/faith_megachurches_FACTsummary.htmlrich, let's be real here. There is a different standard when it comes to Christianity and other religions in the public and corporate sphere that has grown stronger since the 60s. I don't think Christians are obsessed with it, just that when they see it, they speak out about it. How is that any differnet than any other group of people that think their group is not being treated fairly? It's not. Mega churches may be growing but they still constitute a very small minority in relation to the total churches in America. Below is some data that backs that up. 1,210 total meg-churches. www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/ZCS/CLB/MegachurchesBooming.htmhirr.hartsem.edu/megachurch/megastoday2005_profile.html
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Post by phinehas on May 5, 2007 10:40:05 GMT -5
rich, there are people out of whack in every group. So what? I don't understand why you choose to view all Christianity in this manner by adding much more weight to a few people in comparison to the whole.
"I have been shouted at by nutty christians like this outside almost every stadium I go to. There is always some nutjob at Southside."
Why would they be yelling at you? What stadium's are you referring to? What is Southside?
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Post by phinehas on May 5, 2007 10:46:45 GMT -5
rich - if I start posting youtube videos of the KKK, can that be reasonably used to villify white people or be considered as a substative point on white people in general? No.
I could care less what videos you show, because they don't represent Christianity.
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Post by kevin on May 5, 2007 12:04:24 GMT -5
or these www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYBADUS7dac&mode=related&search=I could go on ALL DAY. I have been shouted at by nutty christians like this outside almost every stadium I go to. There is always some nutjob at Southside. Maybe its seeing folks like this that make me think some Christians are way out of whack. First, youtube is definitely NOT Christian friendly. Sure, it may be good for a few funny videos, but if you search on there using "Christian" you won't find any videos that positively portray Christians. Not a valid source. I went to Promise Keepers in 2005 in Nashville. There were tons of weird anti-Christian people outside of the event. Not weird in the sense that they offended my Christianity, just plain weird as human standards go. So being a nut job is really a human condition and certainly not exclusive to those who may think they are representing Christianity.
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Post by kevin on May 5, 2007 13:38:09 GMT -5
It's a joke based off of post #5 Off topic - Do you know what the story behind what those guys were doing in post#6. I can't really think of a reason for why that ball player did what the picture shows but I am not a major league ball player, so there may be a "reasonable" excuse I am not aware of. I went searching for the story on that photo. I googled this, "Cardinal player grabbing the cup of another player" and take a read of the summary of the third entry, under "Midwesterner's Guide to Living in New York City". Go figure. Edit: I think this is a job for fragerellaoogle to find. Here ya go: Cardinal Sin or...I got it, I got it
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Post by richbrout on May 5, 2007 19:26:57 GMT -5
Guys- I absolutely agree that every group has its eccentrics and they don't represent the whole. I am glad to hear the numbers you gave Phin- I believe you and social justice issues are vital. If the church is as involved as you say, and I don't dispute they are, then they need to promote that and make people as equally aware of those efforts as they do passig out tracks and all that business.
I am a Christian. I believe Jesus when he said "Watsoever you do for the least of my brothers, you do unto me." I also believe that when people focus on serving those in need, the love of Christ shines through them and brings people to him. I also reject the proselytizing approach. There is something extremely condescending it and I think it turns away as many as it reaches. Even the language is condescending, (I am saved, you are lost,) But it s all good. The you tube stuff was just in fun, hence the LOL.
On the stadiums, I have been Yelled at outside Neyland, Sanford at UGA, Auburn, Tuscaloosa.........small groups of freak Christians telling everyone the sins of drunkeness and that the end is near.
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Post by phinehas on May 5, 2007 19:28:07 GMT -5
Kevin,
Thanks...now that I venture to look at it closer, it does appear to be photoshop work. LOL. It does look like a bat or maybe some gloves were photoshoped out of the picture. Patting on the backside is one thing in baseball, that would have been too much, even for a gay sport like bowling.
Edit: Mistake, bowling isn't a sport.
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Post by kevin on May 5, 2007 22:58:11 GMT -5
I also reject the proselytizing approach. There is something extremely condescending it and I think it turns away as many as it reaches. Even the language is condescending, (I am saved, you are lost,) Just as a point of clarification, what do you consider as "proselytizing"? Similar to the approach in the videos? Would you consider things such as Billy Graham Crusades as proselytizing?
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Post by brandon on May 6, 2007 1:09:09 GMT -5
Without me watching a bunch of videos for which I have no interest... what is everyone's beef with homosexuals?
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Post by kevin on May 6, 2007 7:59:59 GMT -5
Without me watching a bunch of videos for which I have no interest... what is everyone's beef with homosexuals? Says the man as he returns from enjoying an Elton John concert ;D. “From my point of view I would ban religion completely,” the superstar declared, “even though there are some wonderful things about it…. But the reality is that organized religion doesn’t seem to work. It turns people into hateful lemmings and it’s not really compassionate.”
His main gripe against religion centers, inevitably, on the negative attitude toward homosexuality in all the world’s great faiths. “I think religion has always tried to turn hatred towards gay people,” he mused. “Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays.”
Despite that “hatred and spite,” religious leaders actually express more tolerance to homosexuality (and non-believers) than Sir Elton expresses toward organized faith. Imagine the indignation if a religious leader suggested that we need to “ban homosexuality completely” --- or urged an outright prohibition on atheism? It’s true that many believing Christians want to persuade gays to overcome their same-sex urges, or try to get non-believers to replace their doubt with faith, but no factions in the varied array of conservative religious groups has called for “banning” ideas with which they disagree. In some odd way, that is what this thread is about. Its about focusing less on a person's sexuality and more on their worth as a person -- a person that Jesus died for, just as he did for every one else in the world. But in the same breath, in return for this, why would it be too much for us to ask for gays to stop asking for rights above and beyond that of other people. For instance, from this article, we find that SB 777 in California proposes that * "Mom" and "dad" and "husband" and "wife" would have to be edited from all texts.
* Cheerleading and sports teams would have to be gender-neutral.
* Prom kings and queens would be banned, or if featured, would have to be gender neutral so that the king could be female and the queen male.
* Gender-neutral bathrooms could be required for those confused about their gender identity.
* A male who believes he really is female would be allowed into the women's restroom, and a woman believing herself a male would be allowed into a men's room.
* Even scientific information, such has statistics showing AIDS rates in the homosexual community, could be banned. Which one of these even sounds remotely reasonable?!? In other words, lets all be humans and have human rights, not rights based on our sexual orientation.
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Post by brandon on May 6, 2007 17:21:40 GMT -5
Without me watching a bunch of videos for which I have no interest... what is everyone's beef with homosexuals? Says the man as he returns from enjoying an Elton John concert ;D. Touche.
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Post by kevin on May 7, 2007 19:27:00 GMT -5
To be fair, if homosexuals want equal rights and less (hopefully zero but that's not likely in a human filled world!) condemnation, they need to stop stuff like this Students at Pro-Gay High School Swarm Parents Protesting HomosexualitySome quotes from the article: A small group of parents demonstrating against homosexuality were assaulted by a crowd of nearly 200 hostile students outside Brookline High School during the pro-homosexual “Day of Silence,” MassResistance reported April 25.
One parent, identified as Bruce C., told Mass Resistance, “At least one hundred kids were surrounding me like buzzing bees debating these arguments, some yelling degrading comments like "moron", "idiot", cursing, occasionally throwing food and wads of paper at me, burning my flyer, doing simulated homosexual sex acts, telling me they were going to sodomize me, boys were kissing and making out with other boys and girls were making out and fondling other girls to loud ecstatic cheering.”
One student was detained by Brookline police for physically assaulting a parent, who declined to press charges over the incident. Police told MassResistance they were “pretty shocked” by the behavior of the students.
Brookline High School has one of the strongest pro-gay programs in the state of Massachusetts. In 2005 the school held an all-day Gay, Lesbian, Straight Education Network conference at the school, where the notorious Little Black Book on lesbian sexual acts was distributed.
Many students, however, showed genuine interest in the material being handed out by the parents before the situation deteriorated. “A larger percentage of kids are genuinely interested in hearing the other side, and are skeptical of what they’ve been told in school, but are intimidated from publicly questioning anything.” I'll be the first to admit that this story must be taken with a grain of salt because we don't know how the parents were demonstrating. They could have been saying some nasty things about homosexuals. This does not give the students the right to do what they did though, so no free pass. BTW, this was the same school that a gay & lesbian day where the book "The Little Black Book - Queer in the 21st Century" was given out 2 years ago. Here is a link to the contents of the book -- be warned, this is very graphic!!
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