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Post by killer on May 30, 2007 20:15:54 GMT -5
www.myaea.org/PDFfile/SpecialElection.pdf - The vote is next Tuesday! Here's some info. on Amendment Two. Dixie56 has another thread with good info. on Amendment One. Please do the research and find out what these are about. Call the radio programs and your friends to get the info. out. Then go vote.
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Post by killer on May 30, 2007 21:45:53 GMT -5
I will vote NO on both.
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Post by dixiepixie on May 31, 2007 7:20:26 GMT -5
Just so we will all know, why are you against Amendment 2?
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Post by killer on May 31, 2007 14:59:13 GMT -5
I don't think teachers or other gov. workers should have a special protection against rising health care costs. Those outside of that sector have no special protection. When rates rise, they get the bill (unfortunately.) More and more hard-working people are finding themselves without health care coverage -- they can't afford it. I would like to see legislation pass to help this group. The group that is left out.
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Post by dixiepixie on May 31, 2007 15:42:33 GMT -5
Amendment 2 is to keep the cost of the insurance these workers are already provided down. It is to set up a fund to keep the costs from rising and keep the state (meaning you) from having to pay higher and higher costs every year. These people are already guaranteed this coverage, Amendment 2, if I read it correctly, is to set up a fund that can not be spent on anything but retired teacher and health care workers insurance. I don't agree with the way that teachers are singled out and coddled and not required to preform and show they can provide quality education. Our schools are declining at an alarming rate. Don't lump ALL government workers into the same basket. There has got to be some perks with these jobs. For instance, did you know that a cashier at an ABC store makes minimum wage. Did you also know that if that worker is a single mother she is not entitled to ANY FORM of state assistance (food stamps, AFDC, WIC, ALLKIDS, or Medicaid) BECAUSE she is a state employee?
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Post by killer on May 31, 2007 19:00:41 GMT -5
The job perks are what makes the government jobs so appealing. And I agree with many of the perks. However, there is a large group out here who get nothing -- no benefits anywhere. They don't work for the government and they make too much to qualify for any form of state or federal aid. They often work for a wage only -- no perks. These people are having trouble putting food on the table. And many can't even go to the doctor when they need to -- no insurance. On top of that, if they take off, they don't get paid. So they work sick. If tax dollars are there to spend, they should be spent on this group before more taxdollars are spent on the same groups year after year.
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Post by dixiepixie on May 31, 2007 19:17:25 GMT -5
I disagree with A LOT of the things that AEA and Paul Hubbard grab for teachers. People look at that and think that ALL government workers get these things and are this pampered, but that isn't true. While all pay raises were on hold for most state workers, teachers were not affected, to my knowledge. While no one in the state (with the exception of state employees) can be disqualified for AllKids (the premiums depend on income) for their children, state employees have to pay for insurance. It went up this year. I still know what a great deal it is, but what person making minimum wage can afford $200 a month for insurance? These same people would have to pay about $12 to $15 a month for AllKids. How is this fair? They can't collect AFDC if they are not getting child support. They can't collect food stamps. These programs should open to anyone who needs them. And don't say they should get another job, many of them take a state job because of the benefits offered. The retirement alone is a good reason to keep the job. They would not be able to have any type of retirement if they worked for another business doing the same job.
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Post by dixiepixie on May 31, 2007 20:15:47 GMT -5
Found this info on another forum. Dr. Jim is my local representative. I have known him my entire life and have no reason to not trust him. June 5th 2007 Referendum AMENDMENT 1: Raises the amount of incentive money the state can offer for economic development from $450 million to $750 million via a bond issue. It increases the bond limit now in place. The biggest part of this money is controlled by the governor. The increase was initially proposed to attract ThyssenKrupp. It appears now that they will not use as much as originally thought. This will be used in the future for development throughout the state. The bonds will only be sought if there is an identified qualified recipient. This constitutional amendment will not raise taxes, but will require tax dollars to pay off a bond. The idea is that a byproduct of economic developement is increased income to the coffers. A YES vote means you are in favor of raising the bond limit. A NO vote means you do not want to raise the amount. AMENDMENT 2: Creates a trust fund to shelter retirement funds and benefits for teacher and state employee retirees. Prevents these dollars from being used for purposes other than what they are intended. It follows actuarial tables to insure the fund is adequately maintained. It assures state employees that the state can meet future retirement obligations. By using a constitutional amendment to create this, it would require a vote of the people to “raid the fund”. The legislature could not use this money for another purpose except under extra-ordinary circumstances. This constitutional amendment will not raise taxes. A YES vote means you are in favor of creating this trust fund. A NO vote means you are opposed to creating this fund. A personal note: I supported both of these initiatives, and plan on voting YES for both unless new information surfaces. The first one makes an inflation adjustment and keeps us competitive with other states, and the second on could well head off a crisis born from underfunding our obligation to retirees. Jim McClendon, O.D. State Representative Alabama Legislature 205-467-2656 jimmcc@alltel.net www.jimmcclendon.org
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Post by richbrout on Jun 1, 2007 7:03:49 GMT -5
YES AND YES!!
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Post by killer on Jun 1, 2007 9:24:00 GMT -5
If people would look at the big picture (Alabama as a whole), they would see passing Amendment 2 is THE WRONG THING TO DO. It's as if government employees want the whole pot to themselves -- no regard for others.
Sad thing is it will likely pass by a large percentage. The teachers and other gov. employees get their memos to go vote. The others (on the outside) will not even be aware of what's going on. They have NO REPRESENTATION.
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Post by dixiepixie on Jun 1, 2007 10:41:17 GMT -5
What pot? This will protect benefits that are already guaranteed. If it shelter the retirement I pay for out of every pay check, then I am all for it. From the way I took it, it was supposed to cap retiree insurance to keep the costs down, but if it will also protect my retirement, then, hell yes, I will vote for it.
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Post by dixie56 on Jun 1, 2007 22:38:50 GMT -5
Has anyone been able to find the wording of the amendments? I want to read them! I already know what I will not vote for AMENDMENT 1.
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Post by dixie56 on Jun 1, 2007 22:56:45 GMT -5
I have to agree with Killer and I work for an educational institution. It all boils down to unless it affects us then we do not give a damn, but when we feel it is going to effect us, oh hell no! Here lies the problem. (This is why the politicians and big business has us by the (you know what). The infighting has to STOP! Those that want to destroy our very way of life COUNT on our infighting! Why is this so hard to see? This is the very thing that keeps races apart, it only benefits the few that really do not give a damn other than to enrich them. This all comes from research and common sense.
Am I going to apologize for my opinions or the way I see things? NO! This is what is destroying our Country. Political Correctness is a cancer! When are people going to realize that this is a way for those that want one world government to make it happen? It is not conspirarcy theorist crap. Do the research!
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Post by bamagatr on Jun 3, 2007 13:09:27 GMT -5
If voting DOWN either or both of these amendments SAVES the state ANY money, I will vote NO...otherwise I'll vote yes...
Can anyone tell me how voting either or both amendments down will save one tax nickel?
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Post by kevin on Jun 3, 2007 13:31:09 GMT -5
I won't save the taxpayers any money, but will mean more industry in the state, thus bringing in tax money for the government.
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Post by killer on Jun 3, 2007 14:07:51 GMT -5
bama,
These bills are tying up a huge portion of tax dollars. And although they say these bills will not cause taxes to be raised -- just wait and see. What about other needs in the state? There are other needs out here (I realize that's hard for educators and other gov. employees to see.) Once the legislators recognize the other needs -- they will see they must raise taxes to help with those needs. Or let the needs go unmet -- people going hungry and without health insurance, etc.
The feeling so far has been, "Well... as long as we take care of state employees... our positions will be safe... and that's what really matters."
Other people matter!!!!!!
And for those who don't see it... you're just selfish SOBs.
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lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
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Post by lawman on Jun 3, 2007 14:13:25 GMT -5
bama, These bills are tying up a huge portion of tax dollars. And although they say these bills will not cause taxes to be raised -- just wait and see. What about other needs in the state? There are other needs out here (I realize that's hard for educators and other gov. employees to see.) Once the legislators recognize the other needs -- they will see they must raise taxes to help with those needs. Or let the needs go unmet -- people going hungry and without health insurance, etc. The feeling so far has been, "Well... as long as we take care of state employees... our positions will be safe... and that's what really matters." Other people matter!!!!!! And for those who don't see it... you're just selfish SOBs. Great line, killer!!! You 'flat-out' nailed it! Selfish/Self-centered/Spoiled SOB's who destroyed America and caused Apathy among 'the people!'
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Post by dixie56 on Jun 3, 2007 14:29:58 GMT -5
The fact that the Birmingham News FINALLY said something about this today and Riley wants yes, that is enough reason for me to vote no! I still see #1 as a stealth tax. Also once it is changed in the constitution and we find out later what the REAL motive was, it would be almost impossible to get it changed.
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Post by killer on Jun 3, 2007 14:30:06 GMT -5
I was a lonely voice in the wilderness on the teacher raise issue. I know it is one we will regret. Add Amendment 2 to it, the people will definitely regret it in the future. Costs are going to be too great.
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Post by killer on Jun 3, 2007 14:32:24 GMT -5
Further, this vote has been slipped in before enough people are even educated about it. Sneaky lawmakers!!
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Post by bamagatr on Jun 3, 2007 14:32:46 GMT -5
.....selfish, self-centered SOB's??
seems maybe time for Dr. Thomas Sowell's quote again:
"Another sign of irresponsibility and degeneracy is the unbelievably cheap level of public discourse over political issues."
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lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
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Post by lawman on Jun 3, 2007 14:36:00 GMT -5
.....selfish, self-centered SOB's?? seems maybe time for Dr. Thomas Sowell's quote again: "Another sign of irresponsibility and degeneracy is the unbelievably cheap level of public discourse over political issues." That's right....husband of a Teacher, and you want me to tell you where you can stick that last sentence?
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Post by killer on Jun 3, 2007 14:38:16 GMT -5
OK. But I have grown angry with the selfishness... the educators who think there are no others in the world but them... who always want more.... it's never enough.... will not be satisfied until every tax dollar is devoted to them.
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Post by bamagatr on Jun 3, 2007 14:49:38 GMT -5
.....selfish, self-centered SOB's?? seems maybe time for Dr. Thomas Sowell's quote again: "Another sign of irresponsibility and degeneracy is the unbelievably cheap level of public discourse over political issues." That's right....husband of a Teacher, and you want me to tell you where you can stick that last sentence? hmmm...you haven't gotten any less vitriolic since re-instatement, have you? Dr. Sowell pretty well nailed you, didn't he?
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Post by killer on Jun 3, 2007 14:53:23 GMT -5
bama,
You are the one nailed here. You just want more and more money from taxpayers.... and to hell with everyone else. Selfishness and greediness. The reason good can't happen in our lawmaking process.
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Post by bamagatr on Jun 3, 2007 15:09:16 GMT -5
killer...read my original question more carefully...
my interest is in SAVING taxpayers dollars...will voting either or both of these amendments down do that?
unbelievable that we cannot talk about constitutional amendments without personal attacks...that's EXACTLY what Dr. Sowell was talking about, and I even get attacked for quoting him!!!
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Post by killer on Jun 3, 2007 15:15:31 GMT -5
Vote no on both and yes, you will save taxpayers money. Lots of money in the long run. You must look at the long run -- not just this year and next.
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Post by bamagatr on Jun 3, 2007 15:20:49 GMT -5
Vote no on both and yes, you will save taxpayers money. Lots of money in the long run. You must look at the long run -- not just this year and next. OK...good start...but my question contained the word, "how"...
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lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
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Post by lawman on Jun 3, 2007 15:24:23 GMT -5
I'll call out 'shill' 'Cover-up' A - H***'s like you, and ''Nail you' as I always have! see my point killer? high level stuff, huh? Quote by bamagatr ''seems maybe time for Dr. Thomas Sowell's quote again: "Another sign of irresponsibility and degeneracy is the unbelievably cheap level of public discourse over political issues." Only because of your 'Smart As* quote of an Insult......who do you 'think' you are, Mr. 'My wife has a good job, and I want more!?'
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Post by killer on Jun 3, 2007 15:27:37 GMT -5
bama, These bills are tying up a huge portion of tax dollars. And although they say these bills will not cause taxes to be raised -- just wait and see. What about other needs in the state? There are other needs out here (I realize that's hard for educators and other gov. employees to see.) Once the legislators recognize the other needs -- they will see they must raise taxes to help with those needs. Or let the needs go unmet -- people going hungry and without health insurance, etc. The feeling so far has been, "Well... as long as we take care of state employees... our positions will be safe... and that's what really matters." Other people matter!!!!!! Taxes will rise when our legislators realize other things must be covered financially -- and they have already committed excessive funds to teachers. When all the money has been committed here, money for other needs will have to be raised somehow -- higher taxes.
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