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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 16:09:58 GMT -5
matt says you either support capitalism or you dont....so would it be OK for bill gates to start buying lakes and rivers then start charging for water?
isnt that capitalism?
shouldnt he be allowed to buy all they water in washington state and then charge whatever he desires for water?
why do we have laws against monopolies please? arent they just capitalists at work?
as to the oil companies colluding and NO evidence of such as matt claims.....the FACT that they ALL sell their gasoline for the SAME price within pennies is EVIDENCE.....the FACT that ONE of them hasnt lowered prices NOW in an effort to ca[pture more market share is EVIDENCE!
he now mentions pizza as an example and indeed they do compete that is why pizza isnt sky high....IF pizza hut, dominos, and papa john's decided to NOT compete they indeed could ALL sell their large pizzas for 20 bucks each......the fact that papa john's exists iof proof they compete, papa john's started and gained market share ONE way, LOWER PRICES!
has there been a "new" oil company start up to compete recently?
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 16:12:05 GMT -5
matt, why doesnt the smaller of the big 5 oil companies cut prices NOW to gain market share?
wouldnt that be a great business decision for stockholders? increasing share and insuring higher profits long term?
isnt when prices are highest the BEST time to compete?
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Post by killer on May 24, 2007 16:24:01 GMT -5
I heard them a little earlier. Mat said something like if war was really about oil "like all the liberals say it is..." then gas would be 40 cents a gallon.
What a stupid statement.
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 16:25:48 GMT -5
indeed, matt while intelligent lacks life experience, he makes some remarkably silly claims for a person with his ability.
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 16:38:44 GMT -5
matt is now explaining how the oil companies shut down parts of their refinery's to LOWER production, that IS PRICE MANIPULATION!
trying to control supply and maintain higher prices is the definition of manipulating price!
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Post by killer on May 24, 2007 16:42:40 GMT -5
Turn it off. Oprah's on. Or go water the plants.
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 17:19:58 GMT -5
i just called matt and exposed his IGNORANCE
any reasonable person must admit matt was shown to be WRONG, then got angry and called me stupid!
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 17:24:00 GMT -5
i DID account for the increased cost of crude in my example and matt using $11 a barrel in his example was very dishonest, crude has NOT been at that price since the 70's when gas was 50 cents a gallon.
the price increase NOW are happening when crude is UP from about $59 a barrel 3 months ago to the present $65 a barrel.......a less than 10% increase in crude and we have a 30% increase at the pump!
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 17:25:22 GMT -5
also matt did admit they ARENT "competing".
apology accepted but matt i know far more about economics than you have far better math skills and YOU are the person that got hysterical NOT ME...my voice remains cool calm and collected!
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 17:28:30 GMT -5
YES matt your profit has doubled in the widget example....YOU call me stupid then claim that selling a widget for 10 with a cost of 9 you make 1 buck profit, yet double your cost to 18 and sell for 20 MATT you are claiming that $2 profit PER widget is NOT more than $1 profit per widget.
MATT please look at your own example then admit you are 100% WRONG!
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 17:30:36 GMT -5
MATT it is YOUR voice going through controtions NOT MINE again i remained cool calm and collected and YOU now on the radio doing the voice things speaks to YOUR lack of integrity and distortion of my call!
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 17:34:49 GMT -5
it bears repating according to economics expert matt, 2 dollars profit per widget is NOT more than 1 dollar per widget!
MATT you deposit dollars in the bank NOT %ages, the 10% proift margin is the same BUT the dollars in the bank DOUBLES!
because the entire increased cost is added to the price PLUS an addtional 10% profit on that increased cost!
in the example IF the widget sold for 19 instead of 20 then the profit %age would be down but the actual profit would remain the same!
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Post by kevin on May 24, 2007 17:49:35 GMT -5
First, I just KNEW it was you on the radio (just heard it before I got home). Said to myself "I bet that's billt". Yep.
Second, why are you talking to yourself? Matt is not on here ;D.
Last, I understand his explanation but he pretty much just gave an example that was the same as yours, math wise. He said $1 profit on $9 cost, $2 on $18 cost (~11.1% profit margin for both). You said $0.09 on $1 per gallon total price, $0.27 on $3 total price (~9.89% profit margin on both). Both examples have the same profit margin per cost from the lower to the higher. I think he got confused because you didn't give the cost numbers. So I won't agree that you were off on that account.
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 17:58:48 GMT -5
i understand matt is on the air i also know he has on occassion read this forum.
kevin since you heard the call could you please confirm that i NEVER raised voice or tone and matt was getting hysterical?
also as to economics education, simply put i had taken economics in college and was told to be one of the best students ever in the class, BEFORE matt was born!
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Post by kevin on May 24, 2007 18:10:31 GMT -5
Matt was being Matt and asserting his power as radio host. That means that he can interrupt you and not vice versa . I'll admit, that is one of the things I dislike about Matt -- he assumes that just because its his show its OK to be rude by interrupting in the middle of a statement but does not like it when others do. Its the power they wield! You didn't raise your voice. Well maybe a little, but I could tell you were frustrated. Again, Matt can do that if the caller does not agree with him. Haha, that's another thing I've noticed. 95% of the callers who get bumped to the head of the line for disagreeing with him start their call off with "I don't really disagree" or something similar. I just roll my eyes. I've wanted to call in a few times when I disagreed but I don't have the patience to wait on hold. Its the Gen X in me.
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 19:55:22 GMT -5
the frustration comes from that reality, i understand very clearly he who controls the mic, control/wins every debate.
also the tactic of repeating his point as if i was unable to grasp it because of my "stupidity", i cut him off on that because i understood clearly what he said and his point was NOT valid....NO competition is clear EVIDENCE the the "free market" is NOT happening.
as to selling out of inventory, sorry but most stockholders wouldnt be too scared of selling your product as fast as you can possibly make it!
it doesnt take "collusion" for the oil company to desire to have higher prices by limiting production(control of supply side) and each one doing so, and it doesnt take collusion for government regulations to provide a "cover" for that by making the claim environmentalists have made it impossible to build new refinerys......BOTH things are TRUE, both serve the interests of their groups higher prices and government control/regulation.
it didnt take collusion for the great society programs to cause the breakup of families, skyrocketing divorce rate, out of wedlock births, and many other social ills, it was a "noble" concept, to lift those in poverty out with government assistance, well 40 years later it is proven fact the government CANT replace FATHERS in the home, in the process of raising children.
the great society made many politicians and their friends wealthy and didnt change the poverty rate at all.
my POINT is hosts trying to color callers as "conspiracy theorists" just because they mention FACTUAL information is LAME.
the factual info from my call was there is no real competition in the gasoline selling market and THAT is proof that the "free market" is NOT functioning for some reason(NOT inability to meet demand, none of the big 5 oil companies have lines at the pump and wont have them this weekend the busiest time of the year).
anthoer factual bit of info gasoline was as low as 2.10 only a few months ago when oil was $60 a barrel, today it was around $65 a barrel an increase of less than 10%.....while gasoline just in time for the busiest weekend of the year is at 3.10 an almost 50% increase.
clearly increased cost of crude oil does NOT merit this sized increase...when the free market exists this cant happen, even with limited flexibility items.
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Post by W.O.M.I on May 24, 2007 20:00:00 GMT -5
bill-
You've correctly analyzed the "supply" side of the equation, but you've totally ignore the "demand" size of the equation.
Say all the major pizza making companies do collude and set their prices at $20 for a large, thus regulating "supply".
Their customers, deciding that $20 for a pizza is too high, begin to order other things- Chinese, Indian, Italian- whatever, thus regulating "demand".
The pizza companies see that their sales are going down, even if they do make more per pizza. At least one of them will, at some point, break the price collusion and drop their price to get at least some of their profits back.
Now I'll grant that oil and gasoline are different animals because, while pizza is optional for most people, oil and gas aren't to the vast majority of folks. So the impact on prices that consumers have regarding the price of gasoline is going to be less and slower to make a noticible effect than it would be on something we don't have to have.
What should be done to lower gas prices? Easy:
1) temporarily halve or even eliminate federal, state and local gas taxes
2) streamline the approval processes to build, expand and/or modernize refineries
3) open ANWAR and our shores for drilling
4) eliminate the multiple gasoline formulations required in various parts of the country and just go with one- the cleanest-bunring- mix
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 20:13:00 GMT -5
womi would it be a conspiracy theory to mention that ALL 4 items you listed are controlled by politicians, that those politicians have been given large amounts of money by the big 5 oil companies, and that those 4 items cause higher prices(which the oil companies love) and control (which the politicians love)?
how about that ALL those things have been put in place by BOTH the demos and repubs?
how about that those things harm consumers and enrich the above mentioned groups?
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Post by billt on May 24, 2007 21:03:39 GMT -5
for clarification, i didnt "ignor" the demand side, i didnt mention it because i assumed in a discussion of the price of gasoline that everyone KNEW that the demand is almost a constant that consumers cant do much about.
i have always done what i can to conserve on the personal level simply to save money, meaning i always limited my driving whenever possible.
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Post by kevin on May 24, 2007 23:21:43 GMT -5
Not to hijack, but how would Fair Tax affect gasoline tax?
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