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Post by phinehas on Mar 15, 2007 18:20:08 GMT -5
news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070315/ts_nm/mars_water_dcMan! These people have a serious hard-on to show that some form of life existed anywhere...somewhere other than earth. Now, the stories normally increase during NASA budget cycles but it seems like these non-stories, for the purpose of getting all the Saganites excited, has been increasing the past couple of years. I think they feel that if they find any substantive proof, that they think they will then have a mandate to declare that there is no God.
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Post by bamagatr on Mar 15, 2007 18:42:50 GMT -5
I think they feel that if they find any substantive proof, that they think they will then have a mandate to declare that there is no God. I see it a bit differently...If they find evidence of "human-like" life on Mars, they can then "prove" that such life destroyed the planet... That, in turn, proves that man is destroying planet Earth...
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Post by phinehas on Mar 15, 2007 19:03:42 GMT -5
You are right in that but I am sure that they will have a multitude of proclamations if they ever find anything. They want to find life there...soooo bad. It is driving them crazy.
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Post by bamagatr on Mar 15, 2007 19:24:54 GMT -5
true, phinehas...
look at the orgasms they had when they found even signs of water....
they think the existence of water demands the existence of life...not realizing that, on earth, it's the other way around...
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Post by phinehas on Mar 15, 2007 19:31:20 GMT -5
"look at the orgasms they had when they found even signs of water...."
LOL. So true. They of course have not found "transient liquid water" and therefore have had coitus interruptus for decades.
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Post by blondie on Mar 16, 2007 12:18:33 GMT -5
Is it possible, just possible, that these people might not have a political agenda?
I mean we spent billions of dollars to send two little cars to Mars to explore and see what they could find.
Personally, I find real science very exciting. If there's water on Mars it will be a lot easier to colonize.
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Post by phinehas on Mar 16, 2007 13:28:35 GMT -5
blondie
Almost anything is possible. Yes, science is exciting but doing things for the excitement sake is not appropriate in my opinion to spend billions of dollars. There needs to be some concrete benefits. I would rather see NASA scrapped and funnel all that money into technology that has shown some concrete benefits and a reasonable and common sense ability to show a lot more benefits and that is the exploration of the ocean.
I think it would be less costly and more reasonable for us to colonize under the ocean instead of mars or anywhere else.
Look at Mar's atmosphere:
95.32% carbon dioxide 2.7% nitrogen 1.6% Argon 0.13% oxygen 0.07% carbon monoxide 0.03% water vapor trace
versus Earth: 78% nitrogen 21% oxygen 0.9% argon 0.04% carbon dioxide with variable small amounts of water vapor and pollutants such as sulfur dioxide and carbon monoxide.
So in order for us to survive, we need water and we need oxygen and nitrogen. How do we get that on Mars? We would have to produce it. How? you need the elements available, which Mars does not have or you need to be able to create it. How is it created on earth?
"It is estimated that Algae produces about 73 to 87 percent of the net global production of oxygen,which makes it available to humans and other terrestrial animals for respiration.[11] Another secondary source of oxygen are trees, trees can absorb carbon dioxide at the rate of 26 pounds per year-especially young trees that are still growing-while releasing oxygen back into the air."
OK, so what does the Algae need to survive?
Carbon Dioxide and Nitrogen.
Mars has plenty of Carbon Dioxide, how we lower that down is another problem..but it has very little nitrogen. So, how does the plankton get nitrogen? From fish, etc. waste.
So now we are at another crossroads...how do we get fish to survive on mars....
The discussions of this nature highlight quite plainly that our planet is special and the, "what came first, the chicken or the egg" paradox in how this earth perfectly sustains itself. It begs the question of how it could have formed from nothing and randomly turned itself into an ecosystem that is based entirely on big ass circles that could not have formed with any segments missing in the process.
OK, so back to the ocean as a better alternative.
For one, it's here...we don't need to figure out how to get to it along with all of our gear. Second, it has all the elements inside it that we need to survive.
Is it the ultimate solution for those that believe, without a doubt that we are destroying our planet and eventually we will all die if we don't hop on a bus to another planet? No, but it is more REASONABLE as a starting point in my opinion.
I think the whole idea, which I have stated on other threads, that our earth is going to be at X stage, so we need to go to another planet that is ALREADY, in terms of atmosphere, climate and life, WORSE off NOW and already at X stage isn't logical.....so if the brainiacs THINK they can go to mars and FIX the atmosphere, etc. on a planet at least 35 million miles away, then why can't they do it HERE, where it would exponentially be easier?
So...back to the original premise...I don't think these people really believe that colonizing Mars or any other planet is do-able or reasonable considering the facts....it's just another way for certain people to exclaim there is no God. They think that if they can find life anywhere else other than earth, then that would put another chink in religion...plain and simple.
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Post by fragerella on Mar 16, 2007 15:08:33 GMT -5
I think there's an effort to try to come up with practical ideas that will serve to fix things, but those who support such efforts are quickly labeled as crazy envirofascists.
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Post by phinehas on Mar 16, 2007 15:44:37 GMT -5
frag,
I am speaking in terms of the crowd that thinks our survival depends on us colonizing another planet. The fact that they are pushing in this direction, knowing that they would have to fix the atmosphere or in reality, create an atmosphere is a joke when the basis for having to leave earth is a lost cause to them.
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Post by fragerella on Mar 16, 2007 15:49:18 GMT -5
OK, that's different....
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