yojoe
Newbie Cog
Posts: 12
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Post by yojoe on Feb 26, 2007 10:35:40 GMT -5
what is your opinion on decriminalization of marijuana and other drugs as well? did any of you guys here the guest on the Murphy show in December that was advocating this? he has a good point i think... it seams like a huge burden for our law enforcement officers to try and regulate drugs.I have also heard studies that say incarceration itself has a much worse effect on someones life than the smoking of marijuana.
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Post by bamagatr on Feb 26, 2007 11:11:48 GMT -5
i am in favor of decriminalization with many caveats, so i won't vote...
i'll say this, though...you'll play hell getting the Hoover PD to agree to it...the city of Hoover gets a whole lot of revenue from the "war on drugs"...have you seen their nice SUV patrol vehicles?...and some really state of the art video and communications equipment...
and the financing for modern city facilities...
...not that's there's anything wrong....................
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Post by dixiepixie on Feb 26, 2007 11:14:31 GMT -5
i am in favor of decriminalization with many caveats, so i won't vote... i'll say this, though...you'll play hell getting the Hoover PD to agree to it...the city of Hoover gets a whole lot of revenue from the "war on drugs"...have you seen their nice SUV patrol vehicles?...and some really state of the art video and communications equipment... ...not that's there's anything wrong.................... Those Task Force vehicles they use on I20 are amazing.
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Post by blondie on Feb 26, 2007 14:07:20 GMT -5
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Post by blondie on Feb 26, 2007 14:10:49 GMT -5
you might have to cut and paste the above link. It's worth it. I was very surprised.
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Post by brandon on Feb 27, 2007 11:06:29 GMT -5
Not sure what that means. I know that the state of MS will definately still arrest you for having marijuana.
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Post by espy on Feb 28, 2007 10:58:21 GMT -5
Marijuana is a freakin plant!! unaltered with poisonous additives or other drugs. the only reason it is illegal is for revenue, the governments all get a take on the war on drugs, from cities to the federal government. It will always be illegal, especially if the drug companys have anything to do with it. Think of the money they would loose in the pain killing and depression management if it were legal, most people could manage their own pain and depression without having to buy their drugs.
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Post by bamagatr on Feb 28, 2007 14:58:52 GMT -5
espy...(here we are again)...
don't you suppose that if marijuana were legal, it would still be regulated as a drug, and therefore "marketed" by the drug companies?
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Post by espy on Feb 28, 2007 20:07:12 GMT -5
Absolutely, that is what the drug lobbyists are doing, they have already created a synthesised version of THC but it doesn't have the same effect. So they lobby our government to keep it illegal so that can produce a better version and on that note yes they would market the actual plant itself and the states would get their tax and so on.
As for Marijuana, I am for it 10000% my wife and I used to fight all the time before one of my friends told me about how it could take all the pride out your arguments and let you see the other persons view on things. Well we tried it and we haven't had one fight since. It is also a great aphrodisiac.
I would never suggest any children should use it, I think it should be regulated like alcohol. speaking of which, is a far more damaging drug than marijuana ever could be, and its obviously leagal...go figure..
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Post by roaddeputydelta31 on Mar 2, 2007 0:17:12 GMT -5
Hello all first post on the board. As a Law Enforcement Officer I will be the first to tell you that all the paper work you have to do on a simple Marijuana bust is just plain crazy but, I also will be the first person to put you in jail for it. I can not say one way or the other if it should be legal or not because of my Police Officer ethics but it is the least dangerous drug on the street and I would rather arrest someone D.U.I. than under the influance of narcotics.
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Post by espy on Mar 3, 2007 1:38:00 GMT -5
Welcome, I know you have a job and a duty to uphold the law but even you have to admit the laws and punishment concerning marijuana are a little over the top........and I know you know it all boils down to money (war on drugs money)this......is......not.....a......free.....country..... and before you assume it, Ill go ahead and say it, I do it from time to time, but I do it in my own home, I have my own successful company, I pay taxes and the friends I have are not all pot heads. not to mention it saved my marriage from divorce and it got me off alcohol. I used to have a very short fuse, I would take out all my frustrations on all my loved ones until pot was introduced to me. My whole life turned around after that. I am now even tempered, don't get stressed, my angina pain is gone and my stomach ulcers have gone as well. Isn't caffeine, nicotine and alcohol drugs all of which in large doses can kill or in the case of alcohol, cause you to kill. I don't know of any deaths due to being to stoned or of a stoned individual going on a killing spree. why they are legal and pot is not: big business, If they knew that you couldn't grow it yourself they would grow it and sell it. and with that, if it were legal It might compete to much with the alcohol and tobacco industry, and that would be bad for their business and bad for the governments raping us for court cost, fines and taxes to fight the war on drugs......other than the unconstitutional income tax it is one of the most blatant abuses of power our government pushes on us. war on drugs......hehehe.....war on American freedom more like it.
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Post by phinehas on Mar 3, 2007 1:48:55 GMT -5
espy,
If you are a stoner and successful, excluding celebrities, you are in a minority. Pot makes people docile because.....bingo!...it makes them NOT CARE. It also makes people lazy because.....bingo!...it makes them NOT CARE. Why don't pot heads go on killing sprees......bingo!...it makes them NOT CARE.
You do have health benefits, but the reason why you are "even tempered" and don't get stressed is because....bingo!...it makes you NOT CARE.
If it takes you being medicated to get through life, then have at it. Just don't have any illusions that it is real.
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Post by phinehas on Mar 3, 2007 1:56:37 GMT -5
roaddeputydelta31,
"I can not say one way or the other if it should be legal or not because of my Police Officer ethics"
You could have come on the forum and not stated you were a cop, excuse me, a Law Enforcement Officer and you could voice your opinion on drugs without being in an ethical quandry.
"....but it is the least dangerous drug on the street and I would rather arrest someone D.U.I. than under the influance of narcotics."
I am assuming that the "least dangerous drug" you are referencing is in relation to Marijuana and not alcohol, in reference to D.U.I., since drunks are rather beligerant at times. That being said...we all want to know if Law Enforcement officers start enforcing laws near the end of the month in order to increase the coffers?
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Post by espy on Mar 3, 2007 1:57:00 GMT -5
hello"From time to time" I know it makes most people lazy, including myself. I dont do it while I work or on a daily basis. I may be in a minority because it makes me care about everything, And being even tempered, you must have never tried it, much less done it while you were in a fight with your wife. It didnt make me not care, It actualy made me feel bad for how I was acting and took away all the pride I had built up during that arguement. I dont think its for everyone....
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Post by espy on Mar 3, 2007 1:58:46 GMT -5
I am assuming that the "least dangerous drug" you are referencing is in relation to Marijuana and not alcohol, in reference to D.U.I., since drunks are rather beligerant at times. That being said...we all want to know if Law Enforcement officers start enforcing laws near the end of the month in order to increase the coffers?
you said it....
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Post by phinehas on Mar 3, 2007 2:06:34 GMT -5
I have smoked pot before, when I was a child but gave that up when I became an adult. My opinion is that drugs cover up a problem instead of dealing with it. Most people that do drugs of this nature, do in fact tend to not deal with their problems but run away from them.
I have never had a fight with my wife to a level that required me to be medicated. I understand that the effects on you are different than the norm...all pot did for me was make me lazy, not care about anything ,except for being illogically paranoid about the fact that I was smoking pot. There were times when it made me goofy and laugh at everything...but I am the type of person that likes to be in control of my actions and have the ability to react to my environment. Glad it's working for you though. Maybe it will give you the breathing room to spend some time figuring out what the root cause of your problems are.
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Post by phinehas on Mar 3, 2007 2:09:33 GMT -5
To answer the poll question: I would like for the government to decriminalize drugs and at the same time remove all spending on programs in relation to said drug use.
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Post by espy on Mar 3, 2007 2:37:00 GMT -5
It has indeed given me a clear mind to analyze what my true problems are. I am not a pot head. That is just a term thought up by folks who think they are better than those who smoke...as they drink their beer and smoke their cigarettes. When I said that I use it at home, I would do it and meditate on matters at hand, allowing me to see things from all sides instead of my own selfish thoughts. It helped me to see why I wasn't being successful and allowed me to make conscience changes to my every day life and the way I deal with people and business. Like I said, I am now very successful in what I do and I have brought my family up from near poverty to a comfortable lifestyle. The root of my problems was that I didn't have Christ in my life. During my meditations it became very clear that he was calling me to follow his word. And I have found it to be increasingly easy to fight off any attacks on me or my faith. I feel that God put the drug hear for a reason, not for fun and games but as a tool for meditation, If done while studying Gods word you can real take in all that is being said. God loves us all and hates our sin, he wants us to come to him with a pure heart, being mournful of the sins that we all commit every day and repent for those sins. He even sacrificed his only son( our savior) Jesus for our sins. And when we sin in a knowingly manner we mock his sacrifice.
peace to all.
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Post by billt on Mar 3, 2007 14:14:21 GMT -5
marijuana is the most useful plant ever cultivated by humans, it has been used safely as medicine for over 5000 years.
the war on drugs is a compete JOKE and NOWHERE in the constitution is tyhe government given the power to tell the citizens which substances they may consume.
it took an amendment to ban alcohol for a REASON, that being the government does NOT have the power to ban substances!
that amendment was repealed for a reason also, because the people SAW with their own eyes that prohibition caused, public corruption, drive by shootings, a huge black market, and the BIRTH of organized crime.
the black market is what allows organized crime to exist.
i will get onborad with the drug war when ALL drugs are included, i will take great pleasure in seeing MOST of you drug warriors going to jail for your caffeine addiction.
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Post by richbrout on Mar 3, 2007 14:40:32 GMT -5
FINALLY BILLT!!!!
AN ISSUE WE CAN AGREE ON!
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Post by espy on Mar 4, 2007 8:07:38 GMT -5
richbrout, you a smoker too??
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Post by richbrout on Mar 4, 2007 12:07:05 GMT -5
no
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Post by billt on Mar 4, 2007 14:37:31 GMT -5
trying to claim that anyone that supports medical marijuana as a druggie is about as LAME a response as is possible.
again i enjoy reminding you drug warriors, almost to a man you ALL are addicted to caffeine(differs from speed only in potency), how lame it is to use YOUR DRUG of choice but say others should be jailed for seeking pain relief(a legitmate pursuit)!
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Post by duncan on Mar 15, 2007 8:52:50 GMT -5
When smoked ,marijuana releases 200 cancer causing carcinigens and attackes the cognitive tissue of the brain.Would it change if it regulated,probably not.
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yojoe
Newbie Cog
Posts: 12
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Post by yojoe on Mar 15, 2007 11:23:52 GMT -5
can anyone make an argument to support why marijuana is and should remain illegal?
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Post by billt on Mar 15, 2007 12:04:01 GMT -5
not possible to be done because there is NO rational argument for it being illegal.
you will here many falsehoods such as "attackes the cognitive tissue of the brain" an utterly FALSE claim.
the TRUTH marijuana doesnt "attack" any body system and the reality is our brains have THC receptors hardwired in them, PROOF that this natural substance has been used enough by humans that their brains have developed the hard wiring to deal with its use.
another "truth" when you go outside, drive to work, drive home, you encounter far more than 200 "carcinigens".
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Post by espy on Mar 15, 2007 13:19:03 GMT -5
I think duncan works for the FDA or he/she has been brainwashed like most americans.
billt, your last line is an understatement.
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Post by espy on Mar 15, 2007 13:45:32 GMT -5
Im sorry this is a little long but it is the most comprehensive truth I have found. Try to read all of it and fell free to pass it on to anyone who thinks marijuana is bad....because its NOT!!!
The Truth About Marijuana
The debate over the legalization of Cannabis Sativa, more commonly known as marijuana, has been one of the most heated controversies ever to occur in the United States. Its use as a medicine has existed for thousands of years in many countries world wide and "can be documented as far back as 2700 BC in ancient Chinese writings." When someone says bhanga, ganja, kinnub, cannabis, bung, chu ts-ao, asa, dope, grass, rasta, or weed, they are talking about the same subject: marijuana. Marijuana should be legalized because the government could earn money from taxes on its sale, its value to the medical world outweighs its abuse potential, and because of its importance to the paper and clothing industries. This action should be taken despite efforts made by groups which say marijuana is a harmful drug which will increase crime rates and lead users to other more dangerous substances. The actual story behind the legislature passed against marijuana is quite surprising. According to Jack Herer, author of The Emperor Wears No Clothes and an expert on the "hemp conspiracy," the acts bringing about the demise of hemp were part of a large conspiracy involving DuPont, Harry J. Anslinger, commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, and many other influential industrial leaders such as William Randolph Hearst and Andrew Mellon. Herer notes that the Marijuana Tax Act, which passed in 1937, coincidentally occurred just as the decoricator machine was invented. With this invention, hemp would have been able to take over competing industries almost instantaneously. According to Popular Mechanics, "10,000 acres devoted to hemp will produce as much paper as 40,000 acres of average [forest] pulp land." William Hearst owned enormous timber acreage, land best suited for conventional pulp, so his interest in preventing the growth of hemp can be easily explained. Competition from hemp would have easily driven the Hearst paper-manufacturing company out of business and significantly lowered the value of his land. Herer even suggests popularizing the term "marijuana" was a strategy Hearst used in order to create fear in the American public. "The first step in creating hysteria was to introduce the element of fear of the unknown by using a word that no one had ever heard of before... 'marijuana'" (ibid). DuPont's involvement in the anti-hemp campaign can also be explained with great ease. At this time, DuPont was patenting a new sulfuric acid process for producing wood-pulp paper. "According to the company's own records, wood-pulp products ultimately accounted for more than 80% of all DuPont's railroad car loadings for the next 50 years" (ibid). Indeed it should be noted that "two years before the prohibitive hemp tax in 1937, DuPont developed a new synthetic fiber, nylon, which was an ideal substitute for hemp rope" (Hartsell). The year after the tax was passed DuPont came out with rayon, which would have been unable to compete with the strength of hemp fiber or its economical process of manufacturing. "DuPont's point man was none other than Harry Anslinger...who was appointed to the FBN by Treasury Secretary Andrew MEllon, who was also chairman of the Mellon Bank, DuPont's chief financial backer. Anslinger's relationship to Mellon wasn't just political, he was also married to Mellon's niece" (Hartsell). It doesn't take much to draw a connection between DuPont, Anslinger, and Mellon, and it's obvious that all of these groups, including Hearst, had strong motivation to prevent the growth of the hemp industry. The reasoning behind DuPont, Anslinger, and Hearst was not for any moral or health related issues. They fought to prevent the growth of this new industry so they wouldn't go bankrupt. In fact, the American Medical Association tried to argue for the medical benefits of hemp. Marijuana is actually less dangerous than alcohol, cigarettes, and even most over-the-counter medicines or prescriptions. According to Francis J. Young, the DEA's administrative judge, "nearly all medicines have toxicm, potentially letal affects, but marijuana is not such a substance...Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care" (DEA Docket No. 86-22, 57). It is illogical then, for marijuana to be illegal in the United States when "alcohol poisoning is a significant cause of death in this country" and "approximately 400,000 premature deaths are attributed to cigarettes annually." Dr. Roger Pertwee, SEcretary of the International Cannabis Research Society states that as a recreational drug, "Marijuana compares favourably to nicotine, alcohol, and even caffeine." Under extreme amounts of alcohol a person will experience an "inability to stand or walk without help, stupor and near unconsciousness, lack of comprehension of what is seen or heard, shock, and breathing and heartbeat may stop." Even though these effects occur only under insane amounts of alcohol consumption, (.2-.5 BAL) the fact is smoking extreme amounts of marijuana will do nothing more than put you to sleep, whereas drinking excessive amounts of alcohol will kill you. The most profound activist for marijuana's use as a medicine is Dr. Lester Grinspoon, author of Marihuana: The Forbidden Medicine. According to Grinspoon, "The only well-confirmed negative effect of marijuana is caused by the smoke, which contains three times more tars and five times more carbon monoxide than tobacco. But even the heaviest marijuana smokers rarely use as much as an average tobacco smoker. And, of course, many prefer to eat it." His book includes personal accounts of how prescribed marijuana alleviated epilepsy, weight loss of aids, nausea of chemotherapy, menstrual pains, and the severe effects of multiple sclerosis. The illness with the most documentation and harmony among doctors which marijuana has successfully treated is MS. Grinspoon believes for MS sufferers, "Cannabis is the drug of necessity." One patient of his, 51 year old Elizabeth MacRory, says "It has completely changed my life...It has helped with muscle spasms, allowed me to sleep properly, and helped control my bladder." Marijuana also proved to be effective in the treatment of glaucoma because its use lwoers pressure on the eye. "In a recent survey at a leading teaching hospital, 'over 60 per cent of medical students were found to be marijuana users.' In the same survey, only 30 per cent admitted to smoking cigarettes" (Guardian). Brian Hilliard, editor of Police Review, says "Legalizing cannabis wouldn't do any harm to anybody. We should be concentrating on the serious business of heroin and amphetamines." "In the UK in 1991, 42,209 people were convicted of marijuana charges, clogging courts and overcrowding prisons...and almost 90 per cent of drug offences invlove cannabis...The British government spends 500 million pounds a year on "overall responses to drugs" but receives no tax revenue from the estimated 1.8 billion pound illicit drug market" (Guardian). Figures like this can be seen in the United States as well. The U.S. spends billions of dollars annually in its "war on drugs." If the government were to legalize marijuana, it could reasonably place high taxes on it because people are used to buying marijuana at inflated prices created by risks of selling illegally. It could be sold at a convenient store just like a pack of cigarettes for less than someone would pay now, but still yield a high profit because of easy growing requirements. An entire industry could be created out of hemp based products. The oils extracted from seeds could be used for fuels and the hemp fiber, a fiber so valued for its strength that it is used to judge the quality of other fibers, could be manufactured into ropes, clothing, or paper. Most importantly, the money the government would make from taxes and the money which would be saved by not trying to prevent its use could be used for more important things, such as serious drugs or the national debt. The recreational use of marijuana would not stimulate crime like some would argue. The crime rate in Amsterdam is lower than many major U.S. cities. Mario Lap, a key drug policy advisor in the Netherlands national government says "We've had a realistic drug policy for 30 years in the Netherlands, and we know what works. We distinguish between soft and hard drugs, between traffickers and users. We try not to make people into criminals" (Houston Chronicle). In 1989 the LAncet report states "The Dutch have shown that there is nothing inevitable about the drugs ladder in which soft drugs lead to heard drugs. The ladder does not exist in Holland because the dealers have been separated." We can expect strong opposition from companies like DuPont and paper manufacturers but the selfishness of these corporations should not prevent its use in our society like it did in the 1930's. Regardless of what these organizations will say about marijuana, the fact is it has the potential to become one of the most useful substances in the entire world. If we took action and our government legalized it today, we would immediately see benefits from this decision. People suffering from illnesses ranging from manic depression to multiple sclerosis would be able to experience relief, the government could make a fortune off of the taxes it could impose on its sale, and its implementation into the industrial world would create thousands of new jobs for the economy. Also, because of its role in paper making, the rain forests of South America could be saved from their current fate. No recorded deaths have ever occurred as a result of marijuana use, it is not physically addictive like alcohol or tobacco, and most doctors will agree it is safer to use.
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Post by dixiepixie on Mar 15, 2007 13:51:15 GMT -5
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Post by espy on Mar 15, 2007 13:51:47 GMT -5
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