Kat
Apprentice Cog
Birth. Life. Death. Repeat.
Posts: 143
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Post by Kat on Feb 1, 2007 11:22:26 GMT -5
Well, I am not one that could be accused of PC in any of my posts. To deny that Martin Luther King did not have a significant impact on American society is to deny reality. I would say that his impact justified a national honor. There were two major events and people that were the main contributors of equality for blacks in America as human beings. The emancipation via Lincoln and desegregation via MLK. A person would have to try really hard to want to deny this recognition. You know, there will always be those that deny reality....
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Post by dixiepixie on Feb 1, 2007 13:56:41 GMT -5
A singular, biased account of a single experience is proof. Right. A singular biased account? Well, since my children and I are not living in a 3 bedroom brick home with an attached garage, and a black male college professor IS living in said home (did I mention the $96.00 a month house payments?), I would say my experience with HUD at the time was the norm. Or how about a look at a token black female police chief? She has demoralized her department (I have several friends who work for the city and the ONLY reason they have not quit is the fact that they are so close to retirement), her main "idea" to fight crime is to turn it over to the churches, and she actually gets on TV and blames the homicide rate on her Christian faith.Oh...but I forgot...she is putting out a gospel CD, that makes her ineffectiveness OK. Black people in the south will go a lot farther in this world as soon as the remember that there are no longer police dogs in Kelly Ingram Park (that's just a statue), Bull Conner is no longer alive and turning fire hoses on anyone, and they (just like the rest of America) will get what they EARN. It is not up to me or any other person to roll over and pretend like we do not see the inequality of affirmative action. Do you think it does ANY company any good at all to be FORCED to give a less qualified person a job, just because their skin in of a darker tone? Do you think it does the black community any good to sit around and whine "I can't get no where 'cause whitey won't let me"? Do you think it does ANYONE any good for black children to be passed along and not be FORCED to achieve the same standards as all other children, because of their skin tone? I have many friends who are black (not African American, they will tell you they have NEVER seen Africa & they are black Americans) who are smarter than I am. I feel no shame at all in the fact that my best friend is smarter than I am. She has earned EVERYTHING she has by her hard work, no one has handed her anything. The 50's and 60's are over. Everyone can drink out of the same water fountain and use the same bathrooms. Everyone who is willing to work their asses off can have anything they want. People (black or white) who want to sit back and wait for a welfare check are not going to get anywhere and it is no ones fault but their own.
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v
Newbie Cog
Posts: 26
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Post by v on Feb 1, 2007 17:37:27 GMT -5
where's the "clap" smiley??
Can we also, while we're at it, sue Nabisco for the use of the word "cracker" in many of it's products??
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Post by solinvictus on Feb 1, 2007 23:52:48 GMT -5
Well, I am not one that could be accused of PC in any of my posts. To deny that Martin Luther King did not have a significant impact on American society is to deny reality. I would say that his impact justified a national honor. There were two major events and people that were the main contributors of equality for blacks in America as human beings. The emancipation via Lincoln and desegregation via MLK. A person would have to try really hard to want to deny this recognition. You're correct: his impact was the degradation of our cities (as seen in Birmingham), the entrenched welfare mentality among many blacks, an illegitimacy rate of 70% of births in African-American communities, and a culture of crime and promiscuity that's resulted in elevated crime rates and black Americans accounting for half of all new HIV/AIDS cases. Way to go, Martin!
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Post by phinehas on Feb 2, 2007 0:34:20 GMT -5
Sol,
All that you cite was not due to his impact but due to those after him. Show me where he said black people should get welfare, were black people should stop valuing education, were men should stay boys and avoid responsibility?
What you say is reality but it's not due to MLK. The only way you can say it is due to him is to say that all of the freedom that they attained due to his impact was squandered. But is it the person's fault that gives you the ability to make great accomplishments or great mistakes? Is that person responsible for what people chose to do with that freedom? Would it be better that the white man could keep their boot on their necks to keep them in check? None of the things you say woudn't have occured if segregation was still enforced by the government....... What happened to give me liberty or give me death?
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Post by brandon on Feb 2, 2007 3:02:40 GMT -5
You're correct: his impact was the degradation of our cities (as seen in Birmingham), the entrenched welfare mentality among many blacks, an illegitimacy rate of 70% of births in African-American communities, and a culture of crime and promiscuity that's resulted in elevated crime rates and black Americans accounting for half of all new HIV/AIDS cases. Way to go, Martin! So, if we were still under segregation and black people still had to drink from different water fountains then they'd be much better off today? I guess I see your point.
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Post by solinvictus on Feb 2, 2007 23:46:33 GMT -5
You're correct: his impact was the degradation of our cities (as seen in Birmingham), the entrenched welfare mentality among many blacks, an illegitimacy rate of 70% of births in African-American communities, and a culture of crime and promiscuity that's resulted in elevated crime rates and black Americans accounting for half of all new HIV/AIDS cases. Way to go, Martin! So, if we were still under segregation and black people still had to drink from different water fountains then they'd be much better off today? I guess I see your point. I'm saying that simple civil rights degraded into a complete and utter lack of responsibility within the black population, whether individual or collective. I'm going to ask you an honest question: can you name a single majority black city or nation in the world that's characterized by honest and open government, public order, a robust legal economy, strong family structures, and clean safe streets and public areas? Regarding segregation; we're STILL a largely segregated nation, the only change is that there's no official sanction of the practice. Sure, we interact at times, but by and large, we still live apart. There's no policy of segregation, yet by and large white people refuse to live in majority black cities and neighborhoods. Why is that, do you think? I get sick of the rampant hypocrisy on all sides of the race issue. Period.
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Post by phinehas on Feb 3, 2007 0:25:23 GMT -5
You have asked that before and I answered that I could not offer up an example. That in no way invalidates MLK and the impact of his words. His words were true in themselves regardless of the failures of people.
Desegregation has given the only opportunity for white and black people to make an informed decision about their interactions.
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Post by W.O.M.I on Feb 3, 2007 22:56:43 GMT -5
I don't think it is any more fair to blame MLK for what what was done in his name by others in the civil rights movement than I do blaming Jesus Christ for some of the things done in His name in Christianity (Inquisition, anyone?).
It isn't his (or His) fault that not all of his (or His) followers measured up to the example he (or He) set.
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Post by solinvictus on Feb 3, 2007 23:03:52 GMT -5
I don't think it is any more fair to blame MLK for what what was done in his name by others in the civil rights movement than I do blaming Jesus Christ for some of the things done in His name in Christianity (Inquisition, anyone?). It isn't his (or His) fault that not all of his (or His) followers measured up to the example he (or He) set. MLK was a Communist plagiarist who frequented prostitutes during his trips across America. I think his decedents measure up just fine.
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Post by phinehas on Feb 3, 2007 23:45:44 GMT -5
Sol,
Even if MLK was a communist, plagiarist and frequented prostitutes, how does that invalidate the concept of inherent rights of black human beings on this planet? If any one individual could be pointed to as advancing that concept forward, it would undeniably be MLK. THAT is why he has been recognized with a national holiday, not for anything else, good or bad. On those merits alone, what is your disagreement?
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Post by jaisyn on Feb 4, 2007 23:26:50 GMT -5
No, it shouldn't be a national holiday. MLK was an avowed communist, a plagiarist, and frequented prostitutes. Well, I guess I can see why most modern blacks esteem him. We now know your personal agenda, now were is your proof?
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Post by solinvictus on Feb 5, 2007 21:02:15 GMT -5
No, it shouldn't be a national holiday. MLK was an avowed communist, a plagiarist, and frequented prostitutes. Well, I guess I can see why most modern blacks esteem him. We now know your personal agenda, now were is your proof? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King%2C_Jr._authorship_issuesHis links to the Highlander Folk School, a Marxist enclave in rural Tennessee, were well documented through the 1950's. Further, none other than J. Edgar Hoover had the FBI record his encounters with women, some prostitutes, in hotel rooms while he was on the road. Even Fred Abernathy admitted MLK had difficulties keeping his pants up around the ladies. My personal agenda is this: I get sick of everyone spouting their praises for this man who remained a committed semi-Marxist, a plagiarist, and an aduterer, yet remains the only figure in American history to have a holiday dedicated to his memory. Well, I guess there's Columbus, too, but he wasn't American.
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Post by phinehas on Feb 5, 2007 21:05:14 GMT -5
see post #41.
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Post by jaisyn on Feb 5, 2007 21:09:05 GMT -5
We now know your personal agenda, now were is your proof? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King%2C_Jr._authorship_issuesHis links to the Highlander Folk School, a Marxist enclave in rural Tennessee, were well documented through the 1950's. Further, none other than J. Edgar Hoover had the FBI record his encounters with women, some prostitutes, in hotel rooms while he was on the road. Even Fred Abernathy admitted MLK had difficulties keeping his pants up around the ladies. My personal agenda is this: I get sick of everyone spouting their praises for this man who remained a committed semi-Marxist, a plagiarist, and an aduterer, yet remains the only figure in American history to have a holiday dedicated to his memory. Well, I guess there's Columbus, too, but he wasn't American. The same J Edgar Hoover who said that he was nothing more than a n=gg-r preacher? Yeah, that source seems pretty reliable. Wikipedia? A user driven information site? Yeah your sorces are very reliable, now back to your agenda!
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Post by jaisyn on Feb 5, 2007 21:48:19 GMT -5
The same J Edgar Hoover who said that he was nothing more than a n=gg-r preacher? Yeah, that source seems pretty reliable. Wikipedia? A user driven information site? Yeah your sorces are very reliable, now back to your agenda! Who's your source on Solinvictus having an agenda!? I strongly perceive ...you have an agenda! I can go through and read his post, all of them. Ray Charles can see this dude has an agenda. My agenda is to expose racist people like him and the lies that they spread. o
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Post by solinvictus on Feb 5, 2007 21:52:37 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King%2C_Jr._authorship_issuesHis links to the Highlander Folk School, a Marxist enclave in rural Tennessee, were well documented through the 1950's. Further, none other than J. Edgar Hoover had the FBI record his encounters with women, some prostitutes, in hotel rooms while he was on the road. Even Fred Abernathy admitted MLK had difficulties keeping his pants up around the ladies. My personal agenda is this: I get sick of everyone spouting their praises for this man who remained a committed semi-Marxist, a plagiarist, and an aduterer, yet remains the only figure in American history to have a holiday dedicated to his memory. Well, I guess there's Columbus, too, but he wasn't American. The same J Edgar Hoover who said that he was nothing more than a n=gg-r preacher? Yeah, that source seems pretty reliable. Wikipedia? A user driven information site? Yeah your sorces are very reliable, now back to your agenda! So if J. Edgar's men recorded MLK with women other than Coretta, they were wrong?
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Post by tragicpizza on Feb 6, 2007 10:57:59 GMT -5
Irrelevant.
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Post by killer on Feb 6, 2007 11:01:24 GMT -5
Not irrevelant. Poor role model. Poor role models should not have national holidays in their honor.
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Post by tragicpizza on Feb 6, 2007 11:15:45 GMT -5
With that as the criteria, no one but Jesus would have a holiday.
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Post by killer on Feb 6, 2007 11:24:24 GMT -5
Well then, maybe we need more Jesus holidays. If our leaders are too weak to walk the line, then they need to step down and receive no holidays in their honor.
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Post by tragicpizza on Feb 6, 2007 11:59:32 GMT -5
When the US becomes a theocracy, perhaps you'll get your wish.
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Post by solinvictus on Feb 6, 2007 19:47:24 GMT -5
With that as the criteria, no one but Jesus would have a holiday. I'm not demanding he have no faults, but a plagiarist, Marxist adulterer doesn't seem to fit in well as a role model for America's youth.
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Post by phinehas on Feb 6, 2007 20:36:09 GMT -5
You forgot that Washington's birthday is a national Holiday.
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Post by tragicpizza on Feb 7, 2007 10:42:47 GMT -5
With that as the criteria, no one but Jesus would have a holiday. I'm not demanding he have no faults, but a plagiarist, Marxist adulterer doesn't seem to fit in well as a role model for America's youth. Except that he was the focal point of a movement which freed a large section of the country from institutional injustice.
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Post by dixiepixie on Feb 7, 2007 10:57:53 GMT -5
MLK was a great man. He did great things with his life. All have sinned, and all fall short of the Glory of God, so if he visited women other than his wife, that just proves he is human. It doesn't change the fact that he was a great man. I have very strong feelings about and against affirmative action. Dr King had a great plan for the future, and men after him twisted his dream into something he would not ever recognize as his own.
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Post by solinvictus on Feb 8, 2007 21:56:51 GMT -5
You forgot that Washington's birthday is a national Holiday. ...it's been turned into the generic "President's Day".
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Post by phinehas on Feb 8, 2007 23:29:26 GMT -5
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Post by solinvictus on Feb 11, 2007 0:48:54 GMT -5
And I still hold that he's the only American with a holiday; does anyone actually refer to Washington's B'day as such anymore? No, not at all, regardless of the fact that the name wasn't changed. I find it entirely amusing that many self-proclaimed conservatives will still toe the line on MLK, an avowed Marxist. Let's face it; if it weren't for his assassination, MLK would have lived his life as an Al Sharpton like figure on the fringe milking the sheckles out of his followers.
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Post by phinehas on Feb 11, 2007 1:04:32 GMT -5
sol,
Granted, for arguments sake, MLK may be the only American that still has a holiday dedicated to him BUT he was not the"only figure in American history to have a holiday dedicated to his memory" because Washington was the first American to receive that honor.
Any toeing the line I do is not in regards to his political philosophy or how many prostitutes he did or did not visit or how many words he plagerized...but his actions in the scope of race relations...how he brought about the furtherance of equality of all men in America. He was the right man at the right time doing the right thing and history attests to that.
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