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Post by Hoboprobe on Jun 1, 2007 20:01:07 GMT -5
Plus it is unconstitutional. It is another way the government benefits from the sheeple $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 10$ or more at a time. You are so right, Officer Solomon! What do your fellow Officer's actually say and think about this stupid, unconstitutional law?
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Post by Hoboprobe on Jun 1, 2007 20:28:57 GMT -5
Raise my (our) awareness.......Fine and Good! But they haven't STOPPED at ''raising our awareness!'' Making seat-belt usage a LAW and stopping 'us' and giving a ticket that takes (steals) $100.00 from me (us), just as a rotten thief with a gun pointed at a 'victim'.... IS WRONG and a major infringement on my Constitutional Rights and Liberty! THE PROBLEM IS.....THE Citizens have become the 'Victims' of the Evil Lawmakers! Who is stealing $100.00 from you? Did you get 10 seatbelt tickets? The fine for a seatbelt citation is $10.00 not $100.00. And it is the only ticket written that a judge can not attach court costs to. 'cuse me, ma'am, but that's a crock of dung. The fine has been $25.00 in some cities, and even more in others!
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Post by brandon on Jun 1, 2007 22:15:22 GMT -5
I've never understood the mentality of resisting such a simple law. The government taking half of my paycheck every two weeks is a "simple law" isn't it? You never back up and reflect why it concerns the government if I should have to wear my seat belt or face a fine. It's because IT'S A GODDAMNED TAX, IDIOT! That's all there is to it and you support it, you fascist. Why don't you go right along and keep giving away my freedoms no matter how small you deem them to be? How about you continue to petition your king to take away my freedoms up until the day you're suffocating in a gas chamber... I hope I'm the federal agent laughing at your subservient ass on the opposite side of the glass when you wither and die at the hands of your brutal master. Lick the feet of your king. I'll watch your silly ass perish at the hands of your dictator. Until then, you'd better watch me closely; I might drink beer on Sunday! You better go tell your master that I'm breaking his rules! Kissass subservient sheep. It's a great thing that you weren't left up to creating this nation. The Founding Fathers would dismiss you as a silly rube - and they would be right.
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Post by MaccusGermanis on Jun 1, 2007 22:44:32 GMT -5
The occupants of vehicles that wish to ride without seatbelts should refocus their energies to the destruction of state provided emergency services. So long as I am expected to pay for your decision to be unbelted in the event of a crash then don't expect me to get upset about you having to pay a fine.
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lawman
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Posts: 237
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Post by lawman on Jun 1, 2007 22:46:58 GMT -5
The occupants of vehicles that wish to ride without seatbelts should refocus their energies to the destruction of state provided emergency services. So long as I am expected to pay for your decision to be unbelted in the event of a crash then don't expect me to get upset about you having to pay a fine. You're some kind of weird cat, you know that?
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Post by MaccusGermanis on Jun 1, 2007 22:48:15 GMT -5
The occupants of vehicles that wish to ride without seatbelts should refocus their energies to the destruction of state provided emergency services. So long as I am expected to pay for your decision to be unbelted in the event of a crash then don't expect me to get upset about you having to pay a fine. You're some kind of weird cat, you know that? I think I get the gist of your meaning. Do you disagree?
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lawman
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Post by lawman on Jun 1, 2007 22:52:39 GMT -5
Me wearing seat-belts or not...doesn't cost you anything....and it SHOULD NOT COST ME ANYTHING, EITHER!
You get the 'gist' of that....don't you?
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Post by MaccusGermanis on Jun 1, 2007 22:58:48 GMT -5
Me wearing seat-belts or not...doesn't cost you anything....and it SHOULD NOT COST ME ANYTHING, EITHER!You get the 'gist' of that....don't you? Simply untrue. Not wearing a seatbelt does raise the risk of you needing a higher level of gov't supplied (and I do contribute to the gov't) emergency services. Now if you would forswear those services or perhaps carry special "I'm too pretty to wrinkle my clothes" insurance then I would be more supportive of your campaign to repeal seat belt fines.
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Post by kevin on Jun 1, 2007 23:04:23 GMT -5
I've never understood the mentality of resisting such a simple law. The government taking half of my paycheck every two weeks is a "simple law" isn't it? You never back up and reflect why it concerns the government if I should have to wear my seat belt or face a fine. It's because IT'S A GODDAMNED TAX, IDIOT! That's all there is to it and you support it, you fascist. Why don't you go right along and keep giving away my freedoms no matter how small you deem them to be? How about you continue to petition your king to take away my freedoms up until the day you're suffocating in a gas chamber... I hope I'm the federal agent laughing at your subservient ass on the opposite side of the glass when you wither and die at the hands of your brutal master. Lick the feet of your king. I'll watch your silly ass perish at the hands of your dictator. Until then, you'd better watch me closely; I might drink beer on Sunday! You better go tell your master that I'm breaking his rules! Kissass subservient sheep. It's a great thing that you weren't left up to creating this nation. The Founding Fathers would dismiss you as a silly rube - and they would be right. So angry over one statement. I'm guessing that wearing a seat belt [while driving drunk] won't help those on the same road with you. Dude, lay off the sauce before you come on here. I didn't support the gourmet beer law, I don't support blue laws, I don't support sex toy rulings or many other invasive laws. Heck, can't think of any other laws that go against personal rights that I do support but this is one I support because I believe it raises awareness. I can see why others feel the way they do but is there really a need to get so uptight about it? I like this quote: I totally agree, Americans should have the right to splatter themselves all over the interior of their car. Its called 'natural selection' and it strengthens the species by ridding the 'gene pool' of those too stupid to survive Take that for what its worth.
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Post by MaccusGermanis on Jun 1, 2007 23:08:14 GMT -5
I totally agree, Americans should have the right to splatter themselves all over the interior of their car. Its called 'natural selection' and it strengthens the species by ridding the 'gene pool' of those too stupid to survive. You're not picking on NASCAR are you?
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Post by kevin on Jun 1, 2007 23:14:24 GMT -5
No just picking on people who take a small statement and get their [dirty, stinky] panties in a wad about it. I do want to add one thing though.
Hmmm, if that is so, it is a tax you can avoid BY WEARING YOUR SEATBELT. See how simple it is to avoid this tax? Duhhhhhh....
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lawman
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Post by lawman on Jun 1, 2007 23:14:25 GMT -5
The government taking half of my paycheck every two weeks is a "simple law" isn't it? You never back up and reflect why it concerns the government if I should have to wear my seat belt or face a fine. It's because IT'S A GODDAMNED TAX, IDIOT! That's all there is to it and you support it, you fascist. Why don't you go right along and keep giving away my freedoms no matter how small you deem them to be? How about you continue to petition your king to take away my freedoms up until the day you're suffocating in a gas chamber... I hope I'm the federal agent laughing at your subservient ass on the opposite side of the glass when you wither and die at the hands of your brutal master. Lick the feet of your king. I'll watch your silly ass perish at the hands of your dictator. Until then, you'd better watch me closely; I might drink beer on Sunday! You better go tell your master that I'm breaking his rules! Kissass subservient sheep. It's a great thing that you weren't left up to creating this nation. The Founding Fathers would dismiss you as a silly rube - and they would be right. So angry over one statement. I'm guessing that wearing a seat belt [while driving drunk] won't help those on the same road with you. Dude, lay off the sauce before you come on here. I didn't support the gourmet beer law, I don't support blue laws, I don't support sex toy rulings or many other invasive laws. Heck, can't think of any other laws that go against personal rights that I do support but this is one I support because I believe it raises awareness. I can see why others feel the way they do but is there really a need to get so uptight about it? I like this quote: I totally agree, Americans should have the right to splatter themselves all over the interior of their car. Its called 'natural selection' and it strengthens the species by ridding the 'gene pool' of those too stupid to survive Take that for what its worth. AND TAKE THIS FOR WHAT IT'S [glow=red,2,300]WORTH! [/glow] Well said, solomon.....and EXACTLY TRUE! I've thought through the 'points' you correctly mentioned....many times!
solomon wrote Seat belts saved lives in numerous traffic accidents. But on the other hand people have been mangled and ripped in half from side impact collisions. There have been accidents where people may have survived but a seatbelt prevented it.
I wear my seatbelt and I put my baby in a child restraint seat. But I don't think it is the job of any government to tell me to wear one because they MAY save my life.
There are plenty of things that MAY save someone's life. Guns were reported to have been used to deter criminals as much as 500,000 times in one year according to some FBI stats I read a while back. Guns save lives but I don't see the government requiring everyone to own guns or threaten to withhold Federal Highway Funds $$$$ for not having "laws" requiring their usage.
A healthy diet has been proven time and time again but there is no laws regulating diet...and I don't want any.
Illegal aliens are said to have killed over 48,000 people or more per year here in America in DUI related accidents but the Government surely doesn't believe in protecting its citizens with laws that have existed since our country's conception.
Abortion kills on the average of 1,000,000 children per year in America but it is protected under law.
So anytime I hear about this "loving government" worried about "the children" or me I think about all of the things above (and many other injustices) and I feel like punching them in the nose and sometimes I feel like doing much worse.
Seatbelt laws also infringe on Americans' 4th Amendments rights of protection against unreasonable searches and SEIZURES. When a vehicle is stopped by a police car it is considered to be a seizure under law because the person is required to stop hence they are not FREE to go.
Constitutional Cop
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Post by kevin on Jun 1, 2007 23:28:05 GMT -5
Me wearing seat-belts or not...doesn't cost you anything....and it SHOULD NOT COST ME ANYTHING, EITHER!You get the 'gist' of that....don't you? From Alcohol and Seatbelt Statistics: Eighty-five percent of the medical costs for motor vehicle occupants injured in crashes are paid by others and not the person who chose not to buckle up. (Source: NHTSA Economic Impact of Crashes 2000)
Hospital costs are 50 percent higher for those not wearing safety belts. Don’t be a burden on your family and friends. (Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Primary Enforcement Saves Lives, page 9)
Over the last 26 years, safety belts have prevented 135,000 fatalities and 3.8 million injuries. This saved society $585 billion in medical care, lost productivity and other injury-related economic costs. (Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration)
In the last 26 years, nearly 315,000 additional fatalities and 5.2 million serious injuries could have been prevented by safety belts, if all occupants used them. This represents an economic loss of $913 billion in unnecessary expenses and lost productivity. (Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) From Seat Belts are the best protection in a car accident.: On average, inpatient hospital care costs for an unbelted crash victim are 50 percent higher than those for a belted crash victim. Society bears 85 percent of those costs, not the individuals involved. Every American pays about $580 a year toward the cost of crashes. If everyone buckled up, this figure would drop significantly.
By reaching the goal of 90 percent seat belt use, and 25 percent reduction in child fatalities, we will save $8.8 billion annually.
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lawman
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Post by lawman on Jun 1, 2007 23:46:16 GMT -5
Me wearing seat-belts or not...doesn't cost you anything....and it SHOULD NOT COST ME ANYTHING, EITHER!You get the 'gist' of that....don't you? From Alcohol and Seatbelt Statistics: Eighty-five percent of the medical costs for motor vehicle occupants injured in crashes are paid by others and not the person who chose not to buckle up. (Source: NHTSA Economic Impact of Crashes 2000)
Hospital costs are 50 percent higher for those not wearing safety belts. Don’t be a burden on your family and friends. (Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Primary Enforcement Saves Lives, page 9)
Over the last 26 years, safety belts have prevented 135,000 fatalities and 3.8 million injuries. This saved society $585 billion in medical care, lost productivity and other injury-related economic costs. (Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration)
In the last 26 years, nearly 315,000 additional fatalities and 5.2 million serious injuries could have been prevented by safety belts, if all occupants used them. This represents an economic loss of $913 billion in unnecessary expenses and lost productivity. (Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) From Seat Belts are the best protection in a car accident.: On average, inpatient hospital care costs for an unbelted crash victim are 50 percent higher than those for a belted crash victim. Society bears 85 percent of those costs, not the individuals involved. Every American pays about $580 a year toward the cost of crashes. If everyone buckled up, this figure would drop significantly.
By reaching the goal of 90 percent seat belt use, and 25 percent reduction in child fatalities, we will save $8.8 billion annually. So......now we get to where your 'rubber meets the road!'
You couldn't care less about the 'Safety aspect' of the 'belts' ....IT'S REALLY ABOUT $$$$$$$ and how much it could cost you!?
Selfishness, Selfishness!!
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Post by kevin on Jun 2, 2007 4:04:10 GMT -5
So......now we get to where your 'rubber meets the road!'
You couldn't care less about the 'Safety aspect' of the 'belts' ....IT'S REALLY ABOUT $$$$$$$ and how much it could cost you!?
Selfishness, Selfishness!! Do you even pay attention to the flow of conversation? Or do you just merely find ways to insult? Please take a moment and recognize how discussions work. Let me do some simple explaining. 1) Person #1 makes a statement. 2) Person #2 responds to that statement to either agree, disagree, or ask for more info. 3) Person #1 in turn responds to person #2's response. 4) Repeat as necessary. Now that you know the simple concept of a discussion, let me clarify what my last post was intended to do. You posted: I then listed some information refuting that statement. Now that you have some slight understanding of how discussions can proceed, please try it out sometime as opposed to looking for ways to insult people. I didn't even think of how not wearing seat belts cost others until you and MaccusGermanis brought it up. He said it cost him, you said it didn't, I provided information that backed up MG's assertion. Sheesh.
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lawman
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Post by lawman on Jun 2, 2007 4:51:57 GMT -5
I've never understood the mentality of resisting such a simple law. Quote ''You never back up and reflect why it concerns the government if I should have to wear my seat belt or face a fine. It's because IT'S A TAX, That's all there is to it and you support it, you fascist.'' ''Why don't you go right along and keep giving away my freedoms no matter how small you deem them to be?'' I make statements of my opinion.....you can take your 'debate instructions' back to your college Debate instructor! Sheesh
Perhaps, it seems...the above quote is true of you!
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Post by dixiepixie on Jun 2, 2007 7:45:05 GMT -5
Who is stealing $100.00 from you? Did you get 10 seatbelt tickets? The fine for a seatbelt citation is $10.00 not $100.00. And it is the only ticket written that a judge can not attach court costs to. 'cuse me, ma'am, but that's a crock of dung. The fine has been $25.00 in some cities, and even more in others! In the state of Alabama the MAXIMUM fine is $25.00. If you have been charged more than that, I would be talking to a lawyer. Section 32-5B-5Penalty for violations of chapter. Any person violating the provisions of this chapter may be fined up to $25.00. The violation of the provisions of this chapter shall not constitute probable cause for search of the vehicle involved. (Acts 1991, No. 91-255, p. 483, §5.)
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Post by kevin on Jun 2, 2007 7:48:46 GMT -5
Quote ''You never back up and reflect why it concerns the government if I should have to wear my seat belt or face a fine. It's because IT'S A TAX, That's all there is to it and you support it, you fascist.'' ''Why don't you go right along and keep giving away my freedoms no matter how small you deem them to be?'' I replied to this one. If its a "tax" as people want to put it, then its one you don't have to pay. Wear your seat belt, avoid the tax. Now, that's REAL simple huh? Just like a lottery (which we don't have, sadly). Its a tax too. Don't play, don't pay. Cigarette taxes? Don't buy don't pay. Alcohol taxes? Don't drink, don't pay. Like I've already said on several occasions, I understand where people are coming from on this. They think that once the government starts with the small things, they take it farther. No doubt -- they try to do it all the time. But this is one law that is so easily obeyed and really does not hurt anyone. I do not agree with roadblocks and/or "Click It or Ticket" campaigns however. Yes, and your matters of opinion often contain insults. They are typically more of an insult that anything that intelligently furthers the discussion at hand. Besides, the quote above was not your opinion, it was brandon's.
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Post by dixiepixie on Jun 2, 2007 7:58:13 GMT -5
While we are at it, why don't we just look at the entire code, so there are no more people who think they KNOW what the law is: Section 32-5B-1 Title.
This chapter shall be known and may be cited as the "Alabama Safety Belt Use Act of 1991." (Acts 1991, No. 91-255, p. 483, §1.)
Section 32-5B-2 Definition of "passenger car."
For purposes of this chapter, the term "passenger car" means a motor vehicle with motive power designed for carrying 10 or fewer passengers. Such term does not include a motorcycle or a trailer. (Acts 1991, No. 91-255, p. 483, §2.)
Section 32-5B-3 Legislative findings.
The Legislature finds that it is the policy of the State of Alabama that all precautionary measures be taken to save the lives of the state's citizens from vehicle accidents and thereby, to preserve the most valuable resource of the state. (Acts 1991, No. 91-255, p. 483, §3.)
Section 32-5B-4 Requirement of front seat occupants of passenger cars to wear safety belts; exemptions of certain persons.
(a) Each front seat occupant of a passenger car manufactured with safety belts in compliance with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 208 shall have a safety belt properly fastened about his body at all times when the vehicle is in motion.
(b) The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
(1) A child passenger under the purview of Section 32-5-222, who is required to use a child passenger restraint system or a seat belt pursuant to Section 32-5-222.
(2) An occupant of a passenger car who possesses a written statement from a licensed physician that he is unable for medical reasons to wear a safety belt.
(3) A rural letter carrier of the United States Postal Service while performing his duties as a rural letter carrier.
(4) A driver or passenger delivering newspapers or mail from house to house.
(5) Passengers in a passenger car with model year prior to 1965.
(6) Passengers in motor vehicles which normally operate in reverse. (Acts 1991, No. 91-255, p. 483, §4.)
Section 32-5B-5 Penalty for violations of chapter.
Any person violating the provisions of this chapter may be fined up to $25.00. The violation of the provisions of this chapter shall not constitute probable cause for search of the vehicle involved. (Acts 1991, No. 91-255, p. 483, §5.)
Section 32-5B-6 (Repealed effective December 9, 1999) Issuance of citation or warrant.
Repealed by Act 99-397, §1, effective December 9, 1999. (Acts 1991, No. 91-255, p. 483, §6; Act 99-397, §1.)
Section 32-5B-7 Failure to wear safety belt; not evidence of contributory negligence; liability of insurer not limited; driving record of individual charged.
Failure to wear a safety belt in violation of this chapter shall not be considered evidence of contributory negligence and shall not limit the liability of an insurer, nor shall the conviction be entered on the driving record of any individual charged under the provisions of this chapter. (Acts 1991, No. 91-255, p. 483, §7.)
Section 32-5B-8 Disposition of funds; searches; statistics.
(a) A person subject to a penalty pursuant to Section 32-5B-5, shall not be assessed court costs on a conviction.
(b) In any case brought by a law enforcement officer employed by the Department of Public Safety, sixty percent (60%) of the funds generated shall be allocated to the Department of Public Safety, Law Enforcement Division. The remaining forty percent (40%) of the funds shall be allocated to the State General Fund.
(c) A law enforcement officer may not search or inspect a motor vehicle, its content, the driver, or a passenger solely because of a violation of this chapter. (This one proves solomon's search & seizure thing bogus)
(d) Each state, county, and municipal police department must maintain statistical information on traffic stops of this nature on minorities and report that information monthly to the Department of Public Safety and the Attorney General. (Act 99-397, §§3-5.)
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Post by MaccusGermanis on Jun 2, 2007 10:12:50 GMT -5
So......now we get to where your 'rubber meets the road!' You couldn't care less about the 'Safety aspect' of the 'belts' ....IT'S REALLY ABOUT $$$$$$$ and how much it could cost you!? Selfishness, Selfishness!! Actually, yes. If you must kill yourself, then do so with your own resources on your own property. Otherwise would be selfish of you.
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Post by zoomixer on Jun 2, 2007 10:46:27 GMT -5
You must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed today. One could almost take your sarcasm as hostility. Sorry, I have been going non stop without sleep for a few days. Everyone at my house is sick, and between work, school and illness I am the only one not getting to sleep. Not a problem. It just caught me off guard because I've never noticed you to be like that!!! Hope you get to feeling better.
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Post by zoomixer on Jun 2, 2007 10:56:09 GMT -5
Lawman, I know you've been avoiding my questions and I'm sure that's because of our history on here but I'm not trying to attack you. I'm simply curious. Why do you support having a cell-phone ban but you do not support having a seat-belt law?
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lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
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Post by lawman on Jun 2, 2007 11:42:38 GMT -5
Me wearing seat-belts or not...doesn't cost you anything....and it SHOULD NOT COST ME ANYTHING, EITHER!You get the 'gist' of that....don't you? Simply untrue. Not wearing a seatbelt does raise the risk of you needing a higher level of gov't supplied (and I do contribute to the gov't) emergency services. Now if you would forswear those services or perhaps carry special "I'm too pretty to wrinkle my clothes" insurance then I would be more supportive of your campaign to repeal seat belt fines. How'd you know I'm pretty? And I just hate the way that ole nasty 'belt' soils my 'Hollywood' shirts! So I don't wear the stupid ole thing......
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Post by dixiepixie on Jun 2, 2007 13:39:05 GMT -5
Simply untrue. Not wearing a seatbelt does raise the risk of you needing a higher level of gov't supplied (and I do contribute to the gov't) emergency services. Now if you would forswear those services or perhaps carry special "I'm too pretty to wrinkle my clothes" insurance then I would be more supportive of your campaign to repeal seat belt fines. How'd you know I'm pretty? And I just hate the way that ole nasty 'belt' soils my 'Hollywood' shirts! So I don't wear the stupid ole thing......Then I hope you get stopped every time you leave your drive without it on.
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Post by dixiepixie on Jun 2, 2007 13:41:22 GMT -5
Sorry, I have been going non stop without sleep for a few days. Everyone at my house is sick, and between work, school and illness I am the only one not getting to sleep. Not a problem. It just caught me off guard because I've never noticed you to be like that!!! Hope you get to feeling better. Well, I got some sleep today (after 4 days) so I am feeling better, but now I feel like I am getting what the rest of them have. I wasn't trying to be rude, but knew it was the law in Alabama that it couldn't be reported on your MVR.
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lawman
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Post by lawman on Jun 2, 2007 13:50:41 GMT -5
Not a problem. It just caught me off guard because I've never noticed you to be like that!!! Hope you get to feeling better. Well, I got some sleep today (after 4 days) so I am feeling better, but now I feel like I am getting what the rest of them have. I wasn't trying to be rude, but knew it was the law in Alabama that it couldn't be reported on your MVR. How'd you know I'm pretty? And I just hate the way that ole nasty 'belt' soils my 'Hollywood' shirts! So I don't wear the stupid ole thing......Then I hope you get stopped every time you leave your drive without it on. You don't have to try ''to be rude''.......It's Natural for you....as we've ALL seen! --- There is some good coming from this forum closing!
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Post by zoomixer on Jun 2, 2007 13:57:26 GMT -5
That was between Dixie and myself and has nothing to do with you. If you notice, Dixie and I were able to handle a possibly tense situation like adults and, as you can see, no harm-no foul. Don't worry, lawman. We'll all miss your significant contributions here.
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Post by dixiepixie on Jun 2, 2007 13:59:59 GMT -5
That was between Dixie and myself and has nothing to do with you. If you notice, Dixie and I were able to handle a possibly tense situation like adults and, as you can see, no harm-no foul. Don't worry, lawman. We'll all miss your significant contributions here. Will you be moving over to the other board? I think we can wake it up a little. ;D
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Post by zoomixer on Jun 2, 2007 17:53:32 GMT -5
Will you be moving over to the other board? I think we can wake it up a little. ;D Well, since you want me to....
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Post by dixiepixie on Jun 2, 2007 18:28:02 GMT -5
Registered on both boards...(Dale's new one & Kevin's) I shall have fun!
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