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Post by kevin on May 21, 2007 20:16:20 GMT -5
As I research the candidates, I'm trying to find reason why I would or would not support certain candidates. I've checked out Ron Paul, Chuck Hagel, Mike Huckabee, and lately, Mitt Romney. I already have discounted Guiliani and McCain as well as the other 2nd tier Repubs. And if Fred Thompson and/or Newt enter the fray, I wouldn't likely support them, at least not initially.
The reason I discounted Romney initially was that Southern Baptist in me -- he's a Mormon. But sometimes you have to look beyond certain things because you realize that all candidates have something you disagree with.
What do you see as the positives and negatives of Mitt Romney? And just don't repeat what you've heard -- give some backup. Its easy to say someone is "this or that" without actually giving real proof.
Thanks!
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Post by blondie on May 22, 2007 12:05:36 GMT -5
Funny that the Southern Baptists hate the Mormons and vise versa. You guys are like the Sunnis and the Shiites. Basically the same thing.
Don't forget Carter and Clinton were Baptists.
We're not the Judean People's Front! We're the People's Front of Judea!
Reg: If you want to join the People's Front of Judea, you have to really hate the Romans. Brian: I do! Reg: Oh yeah, how much? Brian: A lot! Reg: Right, you're in.
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Post by zoomixer on May 22, 2007 12:33:38 GMT -5
Blondie, just because you don't understand this world you live in is no reason to try and project your hatred and malice on others.
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Post by zoomixer on May 22, 2007 12:38:23 GMT -5
Kevin, in response to your question, I will never be comfortable with a canidate if they don't stand strong against abortion. Not saying in any way that's the only issue I'm concerned about but Romney, in my opinion, has come across as too much of a politician trying to get votes. I don't appreciate switching view points depending on what office you're running for.
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Post by blondie on May 22, 2007 13:12:11 GMT -5
Blondie, just because you don't understand this world you live in is no reason to try and project your hatred and malice on others. Baptists are just as wrong about the natural world as the Mormons by ANY objective standard. Believing in the garden of eden and believing the garden of eden was in Missouri are just slightly different shades of crazy.
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Post by fragerella on May 22, 2007 16:52:48 GMT -5
Zoomixer, what does it mean to you for a candidate to "stand strong against abortion"? Do you mean that you want a candidate who'll promise to work to get Roe vs. Wade overturned? Specifically, what does that mean to you as a voter?
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Post by fragerella on May 22, 2007 16:56:09 GMT -5
P.S. I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. Maybe it's an interpretation thing for me, but I've never seen Blondie become hateful, rude or display a malicious intent. He (forgive me for assuming you're a man if you're not, Blondie) just has different views than most participants who post here. I don't see that he's the one consistantly overreacting to others' opinions and taking them personally.
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lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
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Post by lawman on May 22, 2007 17:06:06 GMT -5
P.S. I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. Maybe it's an interpretation thing for me, but I've never seen Blondie become hateful, rude or display a malicious intent. He (forgive me for assuming you're a man if you're not, Blondie) just has different views than most participants who post here. I don't see that he's the one consistantly overreacting to others' opinions and taking them personally. Well said! I totally agree!
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Post by zoomixer on May 22, 2007 17:10:04 GMT -5
Blondie, just because you don't understand this world you live in is no reason to try and project your hatred and malice on others. Baptists are just as wrong about the natural world as the Mormons by ANY objective standard. Blondie, you're the one who said you live in a world you don't understand. You also said that "the Southern Baptists hate the Mormons and vise versa." I've never seen ANY evidence to support such a stupid statement and that is why I posted what I did. I know that, as a liberal, you often might equate disagreement with hatred but you should know that's not the case. Just because Baptist disagree with Mormons does not mean they hate them. Quit being so lazy with your assertions. And this is why I said what I did about projecting your own hatred and malice.
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Post by zoomixer on May 22, 2007 17:16:45 GMT -5
Zoomixer, what does it mean to you for a candidate to "stand strong against abortion"? Do you mean that you want a candidate who'll promise to work to get Roe vs. Wade overturned? Specifically, what does that mean to you as a voter? Roe vs. Wade should be overturned. It should be left up to the states to decide. As far as a canidate is concerned though, I want someone who believes the same way I do about abortion. I will have lots of trouble voting for someone who is wishy-washy on the subject and has changed their opinion at some point without an extensive explanation. People change their minds. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with "changing" your mind based on what the polls say. If Guiliani wins the Republican Nomination it's going to be a tough election. I love his fiscal views but I disagree with him on about all of the social issues.
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Post by zoomixer on May 22, 2007 17:22:41 GMT -5
P.S. I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. Maybe it's an interpretation thing for me, but I've never seen Blondie become hateful, rude or display a malicious intent. He (forgive me for assuming you're a man if you're not, Blondie) just has different views than most participants who post here. I don't see that he's the one consistantly overreacting to others' opinions and taking them personally. You probably haven't seen lots of his post. He is constantly bashing Christianity and constantly comparing those who have those or similar beliefs to being uneducated and brain-dead. I find that offensive. Not that he believes those things but that he is constantly stating such. I really don't care what he believes and I've enjoyed most of the debates we've had but he's not content with simply disagreeing on an issue. He must follow up with constant insults. If you don't see it, you should go back and read some of the other threads. I'll also say it doesn't bother me that someone insults from time to time but the constant barrage of insults is classless.
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Post by fragerella on May 22, 2007 17:22:52 GMT -5
Zoomixer, what does it mean to you for a candidate to "stand strong against abortion"? Do you mean that you want a candidate who'll promise to work to get Roe vs. Wade overturned? Specifically, what does that mean to you as a voter? Roe vs. Wade should be overturned. It should be left up to the states to decide. As far as a canidate is concerned though, I want someone who believes the same way I do about abortion. I will have lots of trouble voting for someone who is wishy-washy on the subject and has changed their opinion at some point without an extensive explanation. People change their minds. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with "changing" your mind based on what the polls say. If Guiliani wins the Republican Nomination it's going to be a tough election. I love his fiscal views but I disagree with him on about all of the social issues. So at the end of the day, it comes down to believeing what any given candidate says their opinion is, as opposed to any tangible action they can take based upon that opinion.
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Post by fragerella on May 22, 2007 17:24:08 GMT -5
P.S. I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. Maybe it's an interpretation thing for me, but I've never seen Blondie become hateful, rude or display a malicious intent. He (forgive me for assuming you're a man if you're not, Blondie) just has different views than most participants who post here. I don't see that he's the one consistantly overreacting to others' opinions and taking them personally. You probably haven't seen lots of his post. He is constantly bashing Christianity and constantly comparing those who have those or similar beliefs to being uneducated and brain-dead. I find that offensive. Not that he believes those things but that he is constantly stating such. I really don't care what he believes and I've enjoyed most of the debates we've had but he's not content with simply disagreeing on an issue. He must follow up with constant insults. If you don't see it, you should go back and read some of the other threads. I'll also say it doesn't bother me that someone insults from time to time but the constant barrage of insults is classless. I've read them--I just don't find them to be insulting. Just a difference of opinion, I guess.
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lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
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Post by lawman on May 22, 2007 17:43:42 GMT -5
P.S. I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. Maybe it's an interpretation thing for me, but I've never seen Blondie become hateful, rude or display a malicious intent. He (forgive me for assuming you're a man if you're not, Blondie) just has different views than most participants who post here. I don't see that he's the one consistantly overreacting to others' opinions and taking them personally. I find that offensive. ''but the constant barrage of insults is classless.'' WHAT A TWO-FACED HYPOCRITE! But you don't find this 'crap'... literally, (picture below) 'offensive!?'.....and a classless barrage of insults! Let's 'cut to the chase'....... you really 'think' you're better than blondie.....Doncha? Therefore, it's NOT 'cool' for him/her to 'insult' you, or anyone.......But it's OK for you......you get a 'pass!?' Give us more of this 'Wis-dumb?' I maintain....all of my posts amount to this: I think that's what you meant to post.
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Post by zoomixer on May 22, 2007 19:10:19 GMT -5
WHAT A TWO-FACED HYPOCRITE! But you don't find this 'crap'... literally, (picture below) 'offensive!?'.....and a classless barrage of insults! Let's 'cut to the chase'....... you really 'think' you're better than blondie.....Doncha? Therefore, it's NOT 'cool' for him/her to 'insult' you, or anyone.......But it's OK for you......you get a 'pass!?' Give us more of this 'Wis-dumb?' lawman, your reading comprehension skills must be on the same level as your grammar skills. I'll post what I said for you again so that perhaps you actually understand it. "I'll also say it doesn't bother me that someone insults from time to time but the constant barrage of insults is classless." I expect the same thing from myself as I do from everyone else. See, I expect you to actually be able to try to debate topics and form some sort of logical and coherent argument supporting what you believe. I know that's alot to ask from you but I try my best to do the same. Why don't you go back to your still. Hey, if you're looking for a job, I hear that Taco Bell has just your position: LOL!!!!! That one was a bonus!!!!!
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Post by zoomixer on May 22, 2007 19:17:30 GMT -5
So at the end of the day, it comes down to believeing what any given candidate says their opinion is, as opposed to any tangible action they can take based upon that opinion. I'm not sure I like how you phrased that. Are you trying to imply that I'm only going to pay attention to a sound bite of them giving their positions? Just trying to understand what you're saying. If a candidate is against abortion and has always held that position and acted/voted in manner that supports holding that position then I have no reason to doubt them. Ultimately, I am looking for a candidate who values and beliefs best match mine and (back to the thread topic), at this time, I don't think Romney is that person.
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Post by kevin on May 22, 2007 20:23:39 GMT -5
Funny that the Southern Baptists hate the Mormons and vise versa. You guys are like the Sunnis and the Shiites. Basically the same thing. Don't forget Carter and Clinton were Baptists. We're not the Judean People's Front! We're the People's Front of Judea! Reg: If you want to join the People's Front of Judea, you have to really hate the Romans. Brian: I do! Reg: Oh yeah, how much? Brian: A lot! Reg: Right, you're in. Leave it to blondie to sidetrack the thread and focus on the religion aspect ;D. Methinks you focus too much on it sometimes -- struggling with your conscience? J/K... I don't hate the Mormons. Personally, I know very little about their beliefs. I used to like the LDS commercials when they were on -- very family oriented (no puns about polygyny required). I have gone to Southern Baptists churches all my Christian life but I don't really refer to myself as one. I prefer just "Christian". But, yeah, some biases naturally bleed in and the one above is one of them. Besides, people can call themselves anything. I think Bill Clinton claimed Christianity too. And many people "see the light" just before facing execution. Let their actions speak for themselves.
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Post by W.O.M.I on May 22, 2007 20:27:55 GMT -5
frag-
With respect, you haven't disagreed passionately with something blondie has said.
Once you cross that line- which to blondie constitutes a personal attack on her- you'll feel her wrath.
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Post by kevin on May 22, 2007 20:41:26 GMT -5
Kevin, in response to your question, I will never be comfortable with a canidate if they don't stand strong against abortion. Not saying in any way that's the only issue I'm concerned about but Romney, in my opinion, has come across as too much of a politician trying to get votes. I don't appreciate switching view points depending on what office you're running for. Who do you think is strong on this issue? You do know that Reagan was not pro-life at first (think California, 1967), and Reagan had to encourage GHW Bush to adhere to it. Even GW is not as pro-life as people would be led to believe "I don't think the culture has changed to the extent that the American people or the Congress would totally ban abortions," Bush said in answer to a question at a news conference. And? If he was a strong advocate of pro-life, he wouldn't make statements such as this. That really is not much different than the stance Mitt Romney took in Massachusetts. I'll admit that he had a more pro-choice stance earlier in his life, but he had someone close to him die from a botched illegal abortion, so he felt that if abortions were legal at least women would have access to safer conditions. Not saying that this is an acceptable stance, but such an emotional tragedy can work on your beliefs. Its too bad that the change in heart came so close the run for president though. Does seem convenient.
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Post by kevin on May 22, 2007 20:44:09 GMT -5
Believing in the garden of eden and believing the garden of eden was in Missouri are just slightly different shades of crazy. Really? I need to go to Missouri. This is almost as crazy as believing all organisms came from some primordial stew, ain't it?
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Post by Twista on May 22, 2007 22:51:04 GMT -5
Re WOMI (in regards to Blondie)
"Once you cross that line- which to blondie constitutes a personal attack on her- you'll feel her wrath. "
I must be in a good mood, because that had me laughing my arse off! Wrath? In a forum? Is it really that serious with "religious nutjobs", and "godless loonies"? (I be a waiting fo' ya' all to wrassel up da' -WRATH- to come an' git me wit it! LOL)
/thick skinned bemusement off
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Post by phinehas on May 22, 2007 23:31:35 GMT -5
"P.S. I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. Maybe it's an interpretation thing for me, but I've never seen Blondie become hateful, rude or display a malicious intent. He (forgive me for assuming you're a man if you're not, Blondie) just has different views than most participants who post here. I don't see that he's the one consistantly overreacting to others' opinions and taking them personally."You probably haven't seen lots of his post. He is constantly bashing Christianity and constantly comparing those who have those or similar beliefs to being uneducated and brain-dead. I find that offensive. Not that he believes those things but that he is constantly stating such. I really don't care what he believes and I've enjoyed most of the debates we've had but he's not content with simply disagreeing on an issue. He must follow up with constant insults. If you don't see it, you should go back and read some of the other threads. I'll also say it doesn't bother me that someone insults from time to time but the constant barrage of insults is classless. I've read them--I just don't find them to be insulting. Just a difference of opinion, I guess. LOL. Talk about being blind to the obvious. blondie calls people that believe in God, stupid, crazy, irrational, delusional and an assortment of other names on a consistent basis on topics of religion. If you don't find that offensive Frag, then you either don't believe in God and therefore it doesn't apply to you or are used to being called those things and accept them as being true. Which is it? There has got to be another reason.... If you come back with a statement that the comments are not true, therefore they can't be offensive...I will direct you to the nearest black person for you to call them a n-word. Though it isn't true that they are one...I think they would find it offensive, never the less. I am sure if I went around calling Mexicans stupid, crazy, lawbreakers in a constant fashion...you would somehow find offense at that, being a part of that group, though it not being true to you personally or to the group. So, when blondie calls people that believe in God, especially Christians, as being stupid, crazy, irrational, delusional, etc. ad nausea, we take offense at that. The question is why don't you? I would love to be able to understand your logic in this. What blondie fails to understand, which has been pointed out numerous times by various people, is that she could have much more constructive conversations on religion if she didn't purposely insult the very people she wants a conversation with. The only logical conclusion is that she does have malicious intent. For some reason, you haven't figured that out yet. Perhaps what womi said must occur for the realization to smack across your head.
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Post by fragerella on May 24, 2007 11:09:21 GMT -5
"P.S. I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. Maybe it's an interpretation thing for me, but I've never seen Blondie become hateful, rude or display a malicious intent. He (forgive me for assuming you're a man if you're not, Blondie) just has different views than most participants who post here. I don't see that he's the one consistantly overreacting to others' opinions and taking them personally."I've read them--I just don't find them to be insulting. Just a difference of opinion, I guess. LOL. Talk about being blind to the obvious. blondie calls people that believe in God, stupid, crazy, irrational, delusional and an assortment of other names on a consistent basis on topics of religion. If you don't find that offensive Frag, then you either don't believe in God and therefore it doesn't apply to you or are used to being called those things and accept them as being true. Which is it? There has got to be another reason.... If you come back with a statement that the comments are not true, therefore they can't be offensive...I will direct you to the nearest black person for you to call them a n-word. Though it isn't true that they are one...I think they would find it offensive, never the less. I am sure if I went around calling Mexicans stupid, crazy, lawbreakers in a constant fashion...you would somehow find offense at that, being a part of that group, though it not being true to you personally or to the group. So, when blondie calls people that believe in God, especially Christians, as being stupid, crazy, irrational, delusional, etc. ad nausea, we take offense at that. The question is why don't you? I would love to be able to understand your logic in this. What blondie fails to understand, which has been pointed out numerous times by various people, is that she could have much more constructive conversations on religion if she didn't purposely insult the very people she wants a conversation with. The only logical conclusion is that she does have malicious intent. For some reason, you haven't figured that out yet. Perhaps what womi said must occur for the realization to smack across your head. Sorry for not getting back to this sooner (I'm actually not quite getting back to it just yet). I know I've posted a couple of questions/statements that people have responded to with questions of their own and I do have every intention of following up! This isn't the best place to post this, but just wanted to pop in to say that I'm headed out of town for a quick business trip but that I'll give some resoponses when I get back Sunday. I'm going to Reedsport, Oregon (oh, yay, exciting place)....I'm actually logged in at the Bham airport at the moment. Pretty quick little connection they've got here. Anywho, just didn't want you (Phin, et al) to think I'd dropped off the planet after making statements that I knew wouldl need some follow up. Have a good day & enjoy the long weekend, everybody! xoxoxo, The mostly unoffendable, and hopefully hardly ever offensive ~Frag~
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Post by W.O.M.I on May 24, 2007 15:24:24 GMT -5
twista-
Perhaps I should have said "you'll be the target of her wrath".
Generally speaking, I'm rather amused by the insults. Leftists are rather like caged mandrills that way.
The lies, distortions and misrepresentations are another thing- they piss me off because, uncorrected and unchallenged, some might actually believe them to be the truth. Fortunately, >I< am "equal time".
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Post by W.O.M.I on May 25, 2007 10:39:35 GMT -5
frag-
Safe trip!
My family and I are headed over to Atlanta and RenFest for a long weekend ourselves.
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Post by fragerella on May 29, 2007 17:45:44 GMT -5
Thanks, man! I made it back ok & hope everyone had a safe, fun weekend & Memorial Day.
Phin,
My personal feelings about God and His existence (or not) are usually irrelevant to this discussion board. (As a side note, I'll be honest with you, though--I was raised in a traditional Catholic family, but I've doubted pretty much everything I was ever taught since my parents forced me into Confirmation as a teenager). I don't take Blondie's comments personally (in part) because I can see where he's coming from (as far as the whole doubt/denial things goes). To me, the overall "lesson" to be learned (minus the dogma, the written word of man, etc.) from Christianity is basically "Be nice to eachother and take care of folks. The end." Not that Christians invented that concept...it's the main theme of most religions (no need to quote the Quoran ad naseum...people can find "scripture" to bolster their arguments against or for pretty much anything & it's only so much text). Why get worked up arguing the particulars? If God's really there, then I think He's up there shaking His head saying, "No, you noobs!!! You're missing My point!!!".
There are plenty of posters here who feel that way, as evidenced by their posts. I just don't take them personally (I used to, though). I just think they're ignorant assholes, that's all. What's it to me, really? It's NOT true, so.....
OK, you guys are right about the delivery sometimes...
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Post by kevin on May 29, 2007 19:40:17 GMT -5
Hey, I thought this thread was about Mitt Romney? Just a bunch of hijackers on here. ;D.
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Post by W.O.M.I on May 29, 2007 20:29:46 GMT -5
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Post by kevin on May 29, 2007 20:32:42 GMT -5
Ah, jumping on the humorous picture post bandwagon I see .
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Post by W.O.M.I on May 29, 2007 20:38:20 GMT -5
It's either that or beat my head against the wall.
I do enough of that on my job anyway....
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