lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
|
Post by lawman on May 23, 2007 21:26:37 GMT -5
ANYBODY that supports torture or thinks it could possibly work on any level is a simple FOOL! as a veteran I detest this idiocy, ALL that will be accomplished is giving the enemy an excuse to do the same to our soldiers. what possible INFO does anybody at gitmo have? they have been locjked up in isolation for over 3 years now, they "KNOW" useful on any level. Yeah billt! Amazing that people who actually have military experience don't believe in torture. I can't believe how sick some Americans have proven themselves to be. People that support torture are no better than al-Qaeda. You're right, blondie! I can't believe you are truly an 'atheist?
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on May 23, 2007 21:34:59 GMT -5
Believe it...believe she also thinks you are stupid, crazy and delusional since you are a Christian, while you are at it.
|
|
|
Post by W.O.M.I on May 23, 2007 21:38:11 GMT -5
I'll find a link to the actual article, but I think it bears mentioning that the Jihadists are instructed by their "Idiots Guide To Jihad" to scream "Torture!" immediately upon being questioned because they know that groups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International hold the United States to one incredibly high standard and the Jihadists to an absurdly low one.
Those are the same organizations, it must be remembered, that accuse Israel of constant human rights violations whether the "crimes" are contrived or not but never seem to find the need to criticize the Palestinians for launching rockets at Israeli schools.
Recently, a guest at Club Gitmo charged that his interrogators were torturing him....
....by forcing him to use unscented deodorant and soap and play with balls (probably not his own) that didn't bounce.
Oh the humanity!
|
|
lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
|
Post by lawman on May 23, 2007 21:38:47 GMT -5
Believe it...believe she also thinks you are stupid, crazy and delusional since you are a Christian, while you are at it. Well....may I still love her? WWJD?
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on May 23, 2007 21:40:13 GMT -5
blondie,
Interesting article. I would highlight the words, " using a form of water-boarding" as a red flag right off the bat. A commentor on that link responded below. It would seem to be a valid response at first blush.
"Did the "expert" bother to mention that the Japanese actually did try to drown their prisoners while the Americans only simulate it?
Japanese water-boarding in WW2 was very effective but if the subject drowned in the process, they didn't care because in most cases they were going to kill the prisoner anyways.
American water-boarding only simulates drowning - it is also very effective, but the use of clear kitchen wrap to cover the subject's face ensures they don't actually get any water in their respiratory system.
Are they both forms of torture? Of course they are. But the difference noted above is extremely important if you are considering a judicial response. The person trying to draw a comparison between these two events needs to go back and finish high school - they obviously have never been to an institution of "higher learning"..."
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on May 23, 2007 21:42:38 GMT -5
Believe it...believe she also thinks you are stupid, crazy and delusional since you are a Christian, while you are at it. Well....may I still love her? WWJD? Go for it.
|
|
|
Post by W.O.M.I on May 23, 2007 21:49:40 GMT -5
phin-
Excellent call- I missed that.
However, don't be terribly surprised if the distinction is lost on our resident moral relativists.
To them, "torture" (beheading) is "torture" (unscented deodorant).
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on May 23, 2007 21:54:27 GMT -5
|
|
lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
|
Post by lawman on May 23, 2007 21:59:14 GMT -5
phin- Excellent call- I missed that. However, don't be terribly surprised if the distinction is lost on our resident moral relativists. To them, "torture" (beheading) is "torture" (unscented deodorant). W.O.M.I., ...Please, this is 'torture!'
|
|
|
Post by blondie on May 23, 2007 22:05:05 GMT -5
|
|
lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
|
Post by lawman on May 23, 2007 22:15:13 GMT -5
Just flat-out post it, blondie....the 'hell' with a link!!!! Home : Human Rights : General
U.S. Operatives Killed Detainees During Interrogations in Afghanistan and Iraq (10/24/2005)
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: media@aclu.org
CIA, Navy Seals and Military Intelligence Personnel Implicated
NEW YORK - The American Civil Liberties Union today made public an analysis of new and previously released autopsy and death reports of detainees held in U.S. facilities in Iraq and Afghanistan, many of whom died while being interrogated. The documents show that detainees were hooded, gagged, strangled, beaten with blunt objects, subjected to sleep deprivation and to hot and cold environmental conditions.
"There is no question that U.S. interrogations have resulted in deaths," said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. "High-ranking officials who knew about the torture and sat on their hands and those who created and endorsed these policies must be held accountable. America must stop putting its head in the sand and deal with the torture scandal that has rocked our military."
The documents released today include 44 autopsies and death reports as well as a summary of autopsy reports of individuals apprehended in Iraq and Afghanistan. The documents show that detainees died during or after interrogations by Navy Seals, Military Intelligence and "OGA" (Other Governmental Agency) -- a term, according to the ACLU, that is commonly used to refer to the CIA.
According to the documents, 21 of the 44 deaths were homicides. Eight of the homicides appear to have resulted from abusive techniques used on detainees, in some instances, by the CIA, Navy Seals and Military Intelligence personnel. The autopsy reports list deaths by "strangulation," "asphyxiation" and "blunt force injuries." An overwhelming majority of the so-called "natural deaths" were attributed to "Arteriosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease."
While newspapers have recently reported deaths of detainees in CIA custody, today's documents show that the problem is pervasive, involving Navy Seals and Military Intelligence too.
The records reveal the following facts:
A 27-year-old Iraqi male died while being interrogated by Navy Seals on April 5, 2004, in Mosul, Iraq. During his confinement he was hooded, flex-cuffed, sleep deprived and subjected to hot and cold environmental conditions, including the use of cold water on his body and hood. The exact cause of death was "undetermined" although the autopsy stated that hypothermia may have contributed to his death. Notes say he "struggled/ interrogated/ died sleeping." Some facts relating to this case have been previously reported. (In April 2003, Secretary Rumsfeld authorized the use of "environmental manipulation" as an interrogation technique in Guantánamo Bay. In September 2003, Lt. Gen. Sanchez also authorized this technique for use in Iraq. Although Lt. Gen. Sanchez later rescinded the September 2003 techniques, he authorized "changes in environmental quality" in October 2003.)
An Iraqi detainee (also described as a white male) died on January 9, 2004, in Al Asad, Iraq, while being interrogated by "OGA." He was standing, shackled to the top of a door frame with a gag in his mouth at the time he died. The cause of death was asphyxia and blunt force injuries. Notes summarizing the autopsies record the circumstances of death as "Q by OGA, gagged in standing restraint." (Facts in the autopsy report appear to match the previously reported case of Abdul Jaleel.)
A detainee was smothered to death during an interrogation by Military Intelligence on November 26, 2003, in Al Qaim, Iraq. A previously released autopsy report, that appears to be of General Mowhoush, lists "asphyxia due to smothering and chest compression" as the cause of death and cites bruises from the impact with a blunt object. New documents specifically record the circumstances of death as "Q by MI, died during interrogation."
A detainee at Abu Ghraib Prison, captured by Navy Seal Team number seven, died on November 4, 2003, during an interrogation by Navy Seals and "OGA." A previously released autopsy report, that appears to be of Manadel Al Jamadi, shows that the cause of his death was "blunt force injury complicated by compromised respiration." New documents specifically record the circumstances of death as "Q by OGA and NSWT died during interrogation."
An Afghan civilian died from "multiple blunt force injuries to head, torso and extremities" on November 6, 2003, at a Forward Operating Base in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. (Facts in the autopsy report appear to match the previously reported case of Abdul Wahid.)
A 52-year-old male Iraqi was strangled to death at the Whitehorse detainment facility on June 6, 2003, in Nasiriyah, Iraq. His autopsy also revealed bone and rib fractures, and multiple bruises on his body. (Facts in the autopsy report appear to match the previously reported case of Nagm Sadoon Hatab.) The ACLU has previously released autopsy reports for two detainees who were tortured by U.S. forces in Bagram, Afghanistan, believed to be Mullah Habibullah and an Afghan man known as Dilawar.
"These documents present irrefutable evidence that U.S. operatives tortured detainees to death during interrogations," said Amrit Singh, an attorney with the ACLU. "The public has a right to know who authorized the use of torture techniques and why these deaths have been covered up."
The documents were released by the Department of Defense in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the ACLU, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans for Peace. The New York Civil Liberties Union is co-counsel in the case.
As part of the FOIA lawsuit brought by the ACLU, a federal judge recently ordered the Defense Department to turn over photographs and videotapes depicting the abuse of prisoners held by the United States at Abu Ghraib. That decision has been stayed until October 26. The government has not yet indicated whether it is going to appeal the court's decision.
The FOIA lawsuit is being handled by Lawrence Lustberg and Megan Lewis of the New Jersey-based law firm Gibbons, Del Deo, Dolan, Griffinger & Vecchione, P.C. Other attorneys in the case are Singh, Jameel Jaffer, and Judy Rabinovitz of the ACLU; Arthur Eisenberg and Beth Haroules of the NYCLU; and Barbara Olshansky of the Center for Constitutional Rights.
To date, more than 77,000 pages of government documents have been released in response to the ACLU's Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. The ACLU has been posting these documents online at www.aclu.org/torturefoia.
The documents released today are available online at action.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/102405/
|
|
|
Post by zoomixer on May 23, 2007 22:19:03 GMT -5
Just flat-out post it, blondie....the 'hell' with a link!!!! Thank goodness lawman came to the rescue!!! I had sooooo much trouble with clicking on that link!!!! What would we ever do without lawman?!?!?!
|
|
|
Post by phinehas on May 23, 2007 22:35:17 GMT -5
I can't get past the fact that the "report" states that a man died from being gagged. Hmmm, was he not born with a nose?
"According to the documents, 21 of the 44 deaths were homicides. Eight of the homicides appear to have resulted from abusive techniques used on detainees"
So, we are really talking about 8 potential cases here. 13 of them were flat out homicides and are a different matter and 23 were deaths by unrelated causes. I wonder what the percentage is....of the actual number of interrogations versus those that are actually killed or die from the result of said interrogations. So far, this report points out 8 and if there have been thousands of interrogations, then it's statistically a problem that is not systematic and therefore can not be exaggerated into the hysteria of being an American policy.
|
|
|
Post by kevin on May 23, 2007 22:50:48 GMT -5
Yeah billt! Amazing that people who actually have military experience don't believe in torture. I can't believe how sick some Americans have proven themselves to be. People that support torture are no better than al-Qaeda. You're right, blondie! I can't believe you are truly an 'atheist?I would have easily made this mistake one time too (and did) until I did some more research into atheism. Atheist is not a code-name for uncaring, ruthless monsters. I've seen many in my research who show compassion for mankind. Much of it has to do with the lack in belief of an afterlife, so there is the idea of living life to its fullest 'cause you only get to one time. Of course, as a Christian, I'm going to claim its because all people are created in God's image so there is an inherent ability to love other people, but blondie will deny it. I just had to get that in ;D.
|
|
lawman
Apprentice Cog
Posts: 237
|
Post by lawman on May 23, 2007 22:59:01 GMT -5
You're right, blondie! I can't believe you are truly an 'atheist?I would have easily made this mistake one time too (and did) until I did some more research into atheism. Atheist is not a code-name for uncaring, ruthless monsters. I've seen many in my research who show compassion for mankind. Much of it has to do with the lack in belief of an afterlife, so there is the idea of living life to its fullest 'cause you only get to one time. Of course, as a Christian, I'm going to claim its because all people are created in God's image so there is an inherent ability to love other people, but blondie will deny it. I just had to get that in ;D. Still, there's a real decent quality, and compassion, etc. about blondie......I sense! That's just my opinion....but, again....are we not to ..NOT JUDGE?
|
|
|
Post by blondie on May 24, 2007 8:00:52 GMT -5
Just flat-out post it, blondie....the 'hell' with a link!!!! Thank goodness lawman came to the rescue!!! I had sooooo much trouble with clicking on that link!!!! What would we ever do without lawman?!?!?! Why did you post this? Are you a child?
|
|
|
Post by zoomixer on May 24, 2007 9:12:53 GMT -5
Why did you post this? Are you a child? LOL! Nice try, Blondie. I really like how you and lawman are bonding in here. You guys should try to date or something. It's too bad you don't believe in the idea of destiny cause it looks like the two of you were made for each other!!!
|
|
|
Post by blondie on May 24, 2007 9:56:06 GMT -5
Why did you post this? Are you a child? LOL! Nice try, Blondie. I really like how you and lawman are bonding in here. You guys should try to date or something. It's too bad you don't believe in the idea of destiny cause it looks like the two of you were made for each other!!! Why did you post this? Are you a child?
|
|
|
Post by zoomixer on May 24, 2007 10:00:47 GMT -5
Why did you post this? Are you a child? LOL!!! Touche.
|
|
|
Post by lawman on May 24, 2007 10:46:26 GMT -5
LOL! Nice try, Blondie. I really like how you and lawman are bonding in here. You guys should try to date or something. It's too bad you don't believe in the idea of destiny cause it looks like the two of you were made for each other!!! Why did you post this? Are you a child? No, he's an EVIL, HYPOCRITE FOOL! An insulting, malicious, provoker and Internet coward....
|
|
|
Post by zoomixer on May 24, 2007 10:59:57 GMT -5
No, he's an EVIL, HYPOCRITE FOOL! An insulting, malicious, provoker and Internet coward.... LOL!!! Have you signed up to take that GED yet? If you get that GED you might be able to get that dream job you've been looking for:
|
|
|
Post by killer on May 24, 2007 11:11:52 GMT -5
What's wrong with working at Taco Bell?
|
|
|
Post by W.O.M.I on May 24, 2007 19:08:24 GMT -5
Yep yep yep...
Truth is frequently torture to the Left.
|
|
|
Post by W.O.M.I on May 24, 2007 19:15:33 GMT -5
Anyone else slighly suspicious of a story 'supported' by 30 month old documents?
Again, the MSM would have had a field day reporting on this- if it actually happened.
Not to mention that Democrats would have grabbed their torches and pitchforks and marched on the White House.
And where was Karl Rove in all this? Certainly he would have ordered the cover-up of the whole affair- if it had happened- rather than allow the ACLU to file a FOIA request.
That this allegedly took place and yet so little was mentioned of it- how many nights did the MSM treat us to the contrived and overhyped spectacle that was Abu Graib and then again at Club Gitmo- should give one pause.
Remember: terrorists are TRAINED to yell "torture" at the drop of a Koran. One should view their claims- unscented deodorant and nonbouncing balls- skeptically.
This one don't pass the smell test.
|
|
|
Post by bamagatr on May 26, 2007 4:47:12 GMT -5
What's wrong with working at Taco Bell? The one in that pic could end up with a huge payroll...
|
|
|
Post by W.O.M.I on May 29, 2007 10:06:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by richbrout on May 30, 2007 8:03:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by W.O.M.I on May 30, 2007 14:04:45 GMT -5
Is there any scenario you LIEberals don't compare to Vietnam?
|
|