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Post by phinehas on Apr 25, 2007 18:36:53 GMT -5
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 25, 2007 19:32:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the link, phinehas.
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Post by blondie on Apr 26, 2007 15:36:07 GMT -5
"Religious indoctrination of children is the cause of mental illness." "Supernaturalism leads to brain damage." "Christianity created the problem in order to provide the solution." "The atonement doctrine has nothing to do with justice." "If logic works, then everyone would be an atheist." "Atheism is the cure for Christianity the disease."
Sounds about right.
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Post by blondie on Apr 26, 2007 15:43:50 GMT -5
Hey Phinehas, this is from your source: The issue at hand is whether or not this salvation, this justification, is attained by faith or by faith and something else. Justification is by faith. True faith is God's work (John 6:28-29), granted by God (John 1:29), and is concurrent with regeneration (2 Cor. 5:17), which God works in us by his will (John 1:13). This result of this justification and regeneration is that the sinner turns from his sin and towards doing good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor sustain it. www.carm.org/doctrine/justification_verses.htm
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 26, 2007 15:55:52 GMT -5
"Religious indoctrination of children is the cause of mental illness." "Supernaturalism leads to brain damage." "Christianity created the problem in order to provide the solution." "The atonement doctrine has nothing to do with justice." "If logic works, then everyone would be an atheist." "Atheism is the cure for Christianity the disease." Sounds about right.
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 26, 2007 15:59:19 GMT -5
Hey Phinehas, this is from your source: The issue at hand is whether or not this salvation, this justification, is attained by faith or by faith and something else. Justification is by faith. True faith is God's work (John 6:28-29), granted by God (John 1:29), and is concurrent with regeneration (2 Cor. 5:17), which God works in us by his will (John 1:13). This result of this justification and regeneration is that the sinner turns from his sin and towards doing good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor sustain it. www.carm.org/doctrine/justification_verses.htmIs this supposed to be a problem?
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Post by blondie on Apr 26, 2007 16:35:08 GMT -5
Hey Phinehas, this is from your source: The issue at hand is whether or not this salvation, this justification, is attained by faith or by faith and something else. Justification is by faith. True faith is God's work (John 6:28-29), granted by God (John 1:29), and is concurrent with regeneration (2 Cor. 5:17), which God works in us by his will (John 1:13). This result of this justification and regeneration is that the sinner turns from his sin and towards doing good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor sustain it. www.carm.org/doctrine/justification_verses.htmIs this supposed to be a problem? Start about post #18 attackmachine.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=religon&action=display&thread=1176294841&page=1
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 26, 2007 17:59:18 GMT -5
Ok. I went a couple of pages and still don't understand what you're getting at. Has phinehas said that he doesn't adhere to "Grace Alone" in another thread? I didn't seem him refute that anywhere in that thread.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 26, 2007 18:21:07 GMT -5
blondie became confused by my answer to him and the separate answer to twister.
blondie was commenting on Goebbels as if he was a Christian and I refuted that I didn't think he ever was and added as a portion of evidence the fact that he murdered his children and committed suicide when the allies took Berlin.
Twister was speaking of suicide and my response was that a person can't come to salvation after they killed themselves...before and during being a possibility.
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 26, 2007 21:24:35 GMT -5
That's what I gathered.
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Post by blondie on Apr 27, 2007 10:06:34 GMT -5
blondie became confused by my answer to him and the separate answer to twister. blondie was commenting on Goebbels as if he was a Christian and I refuted that I didn't think he ever was and added as a portion of evidence the fact that he murdered his children and committed suicide when the allies took Berlin. Twister was speaking of suicide and my response was that a person can't come to salvation after they killed themselves...before and during being a possibility. So you believe murders and abortionists can go to heaven if they're Christian? If you would ever clearly articulate a point I might not get confused.
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Post by blondie on Apr 27, 2007 10:11:32 GMT -5
I read back through some of that. Actually Phinehas doesn't understand the doctrine of grace. I forgot he's made up his own version of Christianity.
That's why I get confused. I use the term as it's commonly understood and has been used traditionally.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 27, 2007 10:16:22 GMT -5
"So you believe murders and abortionists can go to heaven if they're Christian?"
*Other than the case of Self preservation, there is no difference between murderers and abortionists. King David is not going to hell, nor are a lot of other's that have comitted murder. Jesus himself made statements on the cross that could not be construed in any other way, than the opportunity for those that took part in his murder, could be saved.
"If you would ever clearly articulate a point I might not get confused."
meh
"Actually Phinehas doesn't understand the doctrine of grace. I forgot he's made up his own version of Christianity."
meh, again.
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Post by blondie on Apr 27, 2007 10:26:18 GMT -5
"So you believe murders and abortionists can go to heaven if they're Christian?"*Other than the case of Self preservation, there is no difference between murderers and abortionists. King David is not going to hell, nor are a lot of other's that have comitted murder. Jesus himself made statements on the cross that could not be construed in any other way, than the opportunity for those that took part in his murder, could be saved. So you believe murders and abortionists can go to heaven if they're Christian? Yes or no. Do you believe Jeffrey Dahmer in is Heaven and Gandhi is in Hell? Yes or no.
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 27, 2007 10:29:16 GMT -5
So you believe murders and abortionists can go to heaven if they're Christian? The Bible addresses this: Luke 23:39-43 Since I know you'll go pull up the verses that "refute" this, please note that the criminal who was told that he will be in paradise is the one who acknowledged Christ as Lord and also accepted that he deserved to be punished for what he had done. If you can find some verses that say the repentant heart has no place in the kingdom of God then I'd love to see them.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 27, 2007 10:33:28 GMT -5
I answered it. Yes.
My doubts of certain people, that have comitted certain acts, of actually being Christians does not mean I do not believe in the doctrine of Grace. It's my personal opinion, I am not the judge who will make that determination, for I can only see what's on the outside.
I can't answer your last question in a yes or no. If Dahmer truly accepted Christ, then he is in heaven. If Gandhi truly rejected Christ, then he is in hell.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 27, 2007 10:35:36 GMT -5
Do you not read anybody's responses. I said:
"Jesus himself made statements on the cross that could not be construed in any other way, than the opportunity for those that took part in his murder, could be saved."
That would cover the guy on the cross.
I don't know where you think this is going.
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Post by blondie on Apr 27, 2007 10:43:12 GMT -5
So you believe murders and abortionists can go to heaven if they're Christian? The Bible addresses this: Luke 23:39-43 Since I know you'll go pull up the verses that "refute" this, please note that the criminal who was told that he will be in paradise is the one who acknowledged Christ as Lord and also accepted that he deserved to be punished for what he had done. If you can find some verses that say the repentant heart has no place in the kingdom of God then I'd love to see them. That's not really save by grace in the strictest since of a Calvinist. But I believe it's fair to say if you believe that you're a traditional Protestant. Lots of different bibles. Lots of different translations. Lots of different interpretations. Bible says this and that. Some Christians believe this some Christians believe that.
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 27, 2007 10:48:59 GMT -5
Here's something else for you, Blondie. 2 Cor. 12:9 Rom. 8:35-39
*EDIT* NKJV
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Post by blondie on Apr 27, 2007 10:51:40 GMT -5
I answered it. Yes. My doubts of certain people, that have comitted certain acts, of actually being Christians does not mean I do not believe in the doctrine of Grace. It's my personal opinion, I am not the judge who will make that determination, for I can only see what's on the outside. I can't answer your last question in a yes or no. If Dahmer truly accepted Christ, then he is in heaven. If Gandhi truly rejected Christ, then he is in hell. OK Think twice before you say somebody's not a "real Christian." Also the bit about Dahmer and Gandhi shows what a cruel f---ed up system Christianity is if you think about. Also a typical cult. All that's important is joining the group. That's why the new-age and liberal versions of Christianity have developed in the past century. The old ways make no sense in the modern world.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 27, 2007 10:53:12 GMT -5
Differences can be seen between people in almost anything people don't have 100% proof of, even then, you have people that debate 1 + 1 = 2. You will have to explain why you think I don't adhere to saved by Grace. Give me your defintion and I will respond to it.
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 27, 2007 10:56:10 GMT -5
That's not really save by grace in the strictest since of a Calvinist. But I believe it's fair to say if you believe that you're a traditional Protestant. Not saved by grace?!? Are you suggesting the criminal was saved by works? This was nothing but grace. Understandable. For the record, I usually switch between NKJV and NASB. Most "Christians" tend to form their doctrine from hand-picked verses and do not approach the Bible as a whole. Use scripture to explain scripture.
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Post by phinehas on Apr 27, 2007 11:00:48 GMT -5
Why do I have to think twice about it? I could be wrong or right, so what.
Joining the group has nothing to do with it. Accepting Jesus is the key, you become part of a group after accepting Jesus, not before.
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 27, 2007 11:06:31 GMT -5
OK Think twice before you say somebody's not a "real Christian." He never said that. Read his post. He listed what the Bible reflects and said that we cannot know for sure since we don't know their hearts. How is this the "new-age and liberal" version of Christianity? If you are referring to the Doctrine of Grace, this has been taught since the beginning. I've even shown you how Abraham was "saved by grace."
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Post by blondie on Apr 27, 2007 11:27:54 GMT -5
That's not really save by grace in the strictest since of a Calvinist. But I believe it's fair to say if you believe that you're a traditional Protestant. Not saved by grace?!? Are you suggesting the criminal was saved by works? This was nothing but grace. When I said traditional Protestant I meant you DO believe in saved by grace.
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Post by blondie on Apr 27, 2007 11:35:29 GMT -5
That's why the new-age and liberal versions of Christianity have developed in the past century. The old ways make no sense in the modern world. How is this the "new-age and liberal" version of Christianity? If you are referring to the Doctrine of Grace, this has been taught since the beginning. I've even shown you how Abraham was "saved by grace." I was responding to Phinehas. But what I mean by new-age is somebody who doesn't believe in hell, thinks all good people get to go to heaven. Stuff like that. Just random stuff pulled out of the blue. Liberal Christian is a common term. A lot of people confuse it with political liberalism.
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Post by zoomixer on Apr 27, 2007 11:59:01 GMT -5
I was responding to Phinehas. But what I mean by new-age is somebody who doesn't believe in hell, thinks all good people get to go to heaven. Stuff like that. Just random stuff pulled out of the blue. Liberal Christian is a common term. A lot of people confuse it with political liberalism. I don't think phinehas or I have given you any indication that we fit either of those catagories.
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Post by Twista on May 8, 2007 3:01:48 GMT -5
Oh Phinehas... Your chinese cousin is back... LOL
(barbaro, barbaro, barbaro!)
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Post by phinehas on May 8, 2007 17:32:13 GMT -5
I Don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. You are going to have to bring it closer to our solar system for me to see what you mean by your comments.
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Post by kevin on May 8, 2007 18:47:32 GMT -5
I Don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. You are going to have to bring it closer to our solar system for me to see what you mean by your comments. He meant that REWREW was back with a slightly different name this time. The post was deleted before you saw it.
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