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Post by phinehas on May 2, 2007 12:17:50 GMT -5
killer, the evidence was strong enough that it warranted them not making bond.
"Also, I am fearful for those who are anti-government gun owners. I do not want agents creating reasons to get them."
I am fearful that those that are anti-government, ala Timothy McVeigh, will slip through the cracks and blow up a school or a mall, regardless if the kids are illegal aliens or not, because you will have some Americans that don't have the common sense to report to the authorities, wackos that are making IEDs, grenades and rocket launchers.
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Post by Dale Jackson on May 2, 2007 12:40:11 GMT -5
I do not get the people running to support and defend these clowns. I am all for distrusting the government, but not to the point where I will turn a blind eye to what appears to be some pretty bad guyy, up to no good. Now I realize for some of you their hate of Mexicans excuse what they are up to but I assure you, replace "Redneck Militia" with "Arabs" and "Mexicans" with "whites" and this thread goes in a completely different direction. In fact, since you all ignored this earlier because there is no way to answer it I will post it again... Guys, These guys had homemade bombs and booby traps set up. This is ok by you? Why, cause they look like this... * How about this... Point I am trying to make this is not about the government taking away their guns, these guys had illegal weaponery. *-I used this photo in a light hearted way
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Post by bamagatr on May 2, 2007 15:29:06 GMT -5
Who was that camera man at my family reunuion?
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Post by brandon on May 2, 2007 16:09:07 GMT -5
Maybe these guys didn't like Mexicans. Neighbors said they didn't like government. But I do not believe they were planning an attack. Oh wow, I had no idea that Killer was involved in this case. Thanks for all the insider info you've given the forums! Keep us up to date on this case, will ya?
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Post by brandon on May 2, 2007 16:12:36 GMT -5
Why is this "Attack on Mexicans" story just coming out? Last week, when they were arrested, reports said "no plots discovered." If they were aware of such a planned attack when these guys were arrested, that would have been the headline. The media has reported some things incorrectly. Instead of assuming that the media could possibly report anything wrong, you jumped to the conclusion that the ATF must be lying.
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Post by W.O.M.I on May 2, 2007 19:04:13 GMT -5
There could be a silver lining in this, folks.
You know how the Feds will occasionally offer a computer hacker immunity from prosecution if the hacker will help out the Feds?
Maybe they'll offer the Militia here a job- finding illegal immigrants.
"Alabama Free Militia- Doing The Job The Federal Government Just Won't Do."
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Post by billt on May 2, 2007 19:27:09 GMT -5
when was the constitution amended to say the citizens shall not be anti government?
disagreeing with the government is now a crime?
george washington etal would put their lives on the line that FREE people have an OBLIGATION to beware of government!
this is a line being crossed that expressing displeasure with the way the government is handling illegal immigrants to the wrong person can land you in jail without bond.
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Post by Dale Jackson on May 2, 2007 19:44:13 GMT -5
Yes, let's ignore the weapons manufacturing billt, it is about disagreeing.
[glow=red,2,300]SARCASM[/glow]
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Post by billt on May 2, 2007 20:18:16 GMT -5
i understand your sarcasm but you miss the point entirely.....part of the complaint against these fellows was being "anti government", i am NOT defending these individuals, i AM defending the basic concept of freedom and where we stand with government.
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Post by phinehas on May 2, 2007 20:31:13 GMT -5
Use some damn common sense for once and read the context of my post, not what you want to pull out to twist.
Here it is again and notice that I stipulated some concepts to the "anti-government" person that narrows down the type I am referring to. I don't recall George Washington or any other founding fathers blowing up day care centers.
"I am fearful that those that are anti-government, ala Timothy McVeigh, will slip through the cracks and blow up a school or a mall, regardless if the kids are illegal aliens or not, because you will have some Americans that don't have the common sense to report to the authorities, wackos that are making IEDs, grenades and rocket launchers."
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 20:37:13 GMT -5
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Post by phinehas on May 2, 2007 20:44:10 GMT -5
Solomon,
I have Waco: Rules of Engagement.
Could they lie, sure...but again, they do have audio recordings. The feds MAY have went in after a certain point, before it was too late to prevent an incident, and have charged them for certain crimes that they have solid evidence on now, ie. the weapons charge and the outstanding warrant. They can be continuing to build their case for the other charges and in the meantime, keep them out of the public until they do, ie. no bond. We will see soon enough on whether the feds have evidence for other charges to be filled. We know that they have enough evidence to give a judge reason to think they would be a dnager to the public.
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 20:46:06 GMT -5
I do not get the people running to support and defend these clowns. I am all for distrusting the government, but not to the point where I will turn a blind eye to what appears to be some pretty bad guyy, up to no good. Now I realize for some of you their hate of Mexicans excuse what they are up to but I assure you, replace "Redneck Militia" with "Arabs" and "Mexicans" with "whites" and this thread goes in a completely different direction. In fact, since you all ignored this earlier because there is no way to answer it I will post it again... Guys, These guys had homemade bombs and booby traps set up. This is ok by you? Why, cause they look like this... * How about this... Point I am trying to make this is not about the government taking away their guns, these guys had illegal weaponery. *-I used this photo in a light hearted way You are "all for distrusting the government"? I could not tell it. Your redneck photos do not match the mug shots released by the press. You said "illegal weaponry". Show me from the constitution how there weapons were "illegal". You can't. You can run around shouting about "limitations" and you can't shout fire in a movie theater. SHOW US FROM THE 2ND AMENDMENT HOW THERE WEAPONS ARE "ILLEGAL". The founding Fathers stated that it was the people's DIVINE RIGHT TO OVER THROW THE GOVERNMENT. How can we do that if we have inferior weaponry? Brian Solomon John 6:68
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Post by phinehas on May 2, 2007 20:51:40 GMT -5
Solomon,
I would agree with you as far as what the Constitution states, however were the founding fathers right about having NO restrictions on weapons? Should Americans be allowed to have chemical, biological and nuclear weapons? How about explosives that could level a building or city block? It doesn't seem prudent to me that there should be no restrictions.
If you are willing to live with no restrictions, then we should be willing to live with OKC bombings and other acts that make the Vtech shootings look like a everyday car accident.
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 20:53:57 GMT -5
Another reason a judge or magistrate will give a no bond is if they are a flight risk.
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 20:55:27 GMT -5
Yes, let's ignore the weapons manufacturing billt, it is about disagreeing. [glow=red,2,300]SARCASM[/glow] LETS IGNORE THE WEAPONS MANUFACTURING! NO SARCASM!
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Post by phinehas on May 2, 2007 20:56:09 GMT -5
....but you do agree that they could have nabbed them initially on the one charge and the fugitive status because they thought it was in the public's interest to get them away from their explosives while building the case for other charges to come?
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Post by Dale Jackson on May 2, 2007 20:56:40 GMT -5
The Free Militia is innocent until proven guitly. It is so suspicious that they said on day one "no plots were discovered" and now they planned on "attacking mexicans". Federal Agents are humans also which means they can commit any sin that any other person commits. I am glad you have decide truth only comes out on day one. Anything released after day 1 - not true. Gotcha. Save the second amendment argument, it does not work here.
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Post by Dale Jackson on May 2, 2007 20:58:36 GMT -5
Your redneck photos do not match the mug shots released by the press. Care to answer the question I asked instead of pointing out the obvious.
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 21:01:20 GMT -5
Solomon, I would agree with you as far as what the Constitution states, however were the founding fathers right about having NO restrictions on weapons? Should Americans be allowed to have chemical, biological and nuclear weapons? How about explosives that could level a building or city block? It doesn't seem prudent to me that there should be no restrictions. If you are willing to live with no restrictions, then we should be willing to live with OKC bombings and other acts that make the Vtech shootings look like a everyday car accident. I agree with no limitations and a swift death penalty for those who conspire to commit murder. McVeigh wanted revenge for what happened at Waco and Ruby Ridge from what I heard. Have you watched 9/11 Road to Tyranny? AJ gave some evidence of with holding evidence against McVeigh. Did you state in a previous post that McVeigh was in a militia? He visited the Michigan Militia but was not a member. Just like someone can visit a church without being a member. The democrats and liberal media attempted to associate him with a militia so they could demonize them.
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Post by billt on May 2, 2007 21:02:30 GMT -5
people accept the over 100 deaths DAILY on our nations highways without batting an eye.
simple stuff really you identify and remove from society those that harm others it is obvious that a few will always ABUSE their rights, let the courts deal with them swiftly and certainly...but giving away rights we all have because a few abuse them is the END of basic freedom so many shed their blood for before us.
history and the founding fathers told us the biggest "threat" to human freedom has always been government...that is WHY they restricted the government powers so severely in the constitution.
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Post by Dale Jackson on May 2, 2007 21:03:09 GMT -5
Yes, let's ignore the weapons manufacturing billt, it is about disagreeing. [glow=red,2,300]SARCASM[/glow] LETS IGNORE THE WEAPONS MANUFACTURING! NO SARCASM! Solomon can I get a list of the laws we need to enforce and the ones we don't? *1 bonus point if you actually answer the question *2 bonus points if you do not point to the constitution and give a real actual answer that works in the year 2007
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 21:10:42 GMT -5
....but you do agree that they could have nabbed them initially on the one charge and the fugitive status because they thought it was in the public's interest to get them away from their explosives while building the case for other charges to come? If the fugitive warrant was for making a weapon my answer is no. The Feds are not consistently interested in our safety with wide open borders. Mexican military or drug smugglers over ran our national guard on the border with hummers and machine guns. The FBI/ATF has yet to do anything about that incident. Mexicans can plot to harm Americans and our National Guard with machine guns and explosives and they want us to believe them. Not this guy. I may be dumb and wrong on a few things but the 2nd amendment is not one of them.
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Post by phinehas on May 2, 2007 21:18:07 GMT -5
"I agree with no limitations and a swift death penalty for those who conspire to commit murder."
You and billt seem very comfortable with the fact of killing perpetrators after they commit their crimes. I am sorry but I don't consider it a trade off to have an OKC bombing every year by 1% of the total people that want to horde a bunch of explosives or any other WMD, for whatever the reason, in order for the other 99% to play Rambo.
"Did you state in a previous post that McVeigh was in a militia?"
No, I didn't but one must wonder what he was doing in Elohim City.
"If the fugitive warrant was for making a weapon my answer is no."
The fugitive status was a separate charge on one individual.
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 21:23:09 GMT -5
The Free Militia is innocent until proven guitly. It is so suspicious that they said on day one "no plots were discovered" and now they planned on "attacking mexicans". Federal Agents are humans also which means they can commit any sin that any other person commits. I am glad you have decide truth only comes out on day one. Anything released after day 1 - not true. Gotcha. Save the second amendment argument, it does not work here. I knew you couldn't answer it. Solomon=1 Jackson=0
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Post by Dale Jackson on May 2, 2007 21:25:00 GMT -5
I am glad you have decide truth only comes out on day one. Anything released after day 1 - not true. Gotcha. Save the second amendment argument, it does not work here. I knew you couldn't answer it. Solomon=1 Jackson=0 Did I miss a question somewhere?
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 21:30:59 GMT -5
LETS IGNORE THE WEAPONS MANUFACTURING! NO SARCASM! Solomon can I get a list of the laws we need to enforce and the ones we don't? *1 bonus point if you actually answer the question *2 bonus points if you do not point to the constitution and give a real actual answer that works in the year 2007 Theft 1st, 2nd and 3rd degrees. Rape all degrees (real rape not a 18 year old and a 15 year old). Murder. Robery all degrees. DUI, Illegal Immigration laws, TREASON, and numerous others. As long as a law does not go against the Bill of Rights it is permissible. If it is unconstitutional it is null and void.
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 21:33:21 GMT -5
I knew you couldn't answer it. Solomon=1 Jackson=0 Did I miss a question somewhere? The question was to show us how their weaponry was illegal according to the constitution specifically the 2nd Amendment.
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 21:38:32 GMT -5
The 2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR ARMS (machine guns, grenades,rocket launchers, IEDs are all arms), SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. The 2nd Amendment states that the people, not the National Guard have the right to bear Arms. It did not limit to arms inferior to their armies, police or any other armed branch of government. The Founders stated that the people had a Divine Right to OVER THROW A TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT. This would be nearly immpossible if their idea of the 2nd Amendment was that the government can have tanks, jets, 50 cals, all types of automatic weapons and other accesories while the people are limited to semi automatic weapons with restricted ammunition capactities. How is it that automatic weapons and other types of firearms and explosives existed for over 100 years in America without restrictions and were owned by citizens until the NFA (National Firearms Act) of 1934. The 1986 Machine Gun Act which disallowed for Americans to possess any automatic weapon that were made from that date and forward to the present day unless you were in the Armed Services or Law Enforcement. Isn't it strange how someone can become a felon overnight without having any criminal intent or having hurt or killed someone? How could the people protect themselves adequately against a government that would take their family at a whim or their property? What if they wanted to tax you without representation to the point to you could barely afford to provide for your family's needs whether they be medical, food, travel, educational, spiritual, retirement, or just something you just want because you want it. We will be completely enslaved if we continue to be systematically disarmed by the government while the government increases its budgets with OUR money and continues to take OUR PROPERTY for example Emenent Domain which was conviently passed before the ground work of the NAFTA Super Highway which will be starting in Mexico going to Canada in the which the government will take over 1,000,000 acres in Texas alone and will be taken from Americans and transfered to Spainish Big wigs that will own the TOLE ROADS that Americans will have to PAY to drive on while Mexican Trucks will under price OUR TRUCKING INDUSTRY and thus further damage our economy that already is paying for the all around burden of increased fuel prices. Our economy is already going to pay for an expensive war that has no visible end in the near future. The government did not provide too much protection to the people of New Orleans that had their firearms taken from them at gun point by the National Guard and Police ( watch the government in action in New Orleans www.gunowners.org/notb.htm ). The saftey of human beings is not high on the list of a government that has allowed the killing of around 40,000,000 unborn babies over the past 35 years or so. If you think the government sucks now just think how much better it will get when the possibilty of some tyrant getting shot will not be very likely. The gun control mentality has proven to be the same as or worse than the taxers mentality, they always want more. You give them one inch they want another and if you continue on they keep on want ing more. It has no end in sight.
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Post by solomon on May 2, 2007 21:47:04 GMT -5
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